Saturn Relay anyone?

Has anyone had any experience with the Saturn Relay?

I spotted one the other day. I didn't even know they were out
until then and hadn't seen any mention on this group about it.

I checked out the information on Saturn's website, built my own,
did side by side comparisons with a couple of other vehicles,
etc, but I am looking for user input.

-DanD

--
# Dan Duncan (kd4igw) http://pcisys.net/~dand
# Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty
# without any proof. -Ashley Montague

That is the new minivan I believe. Check this month COnsumer Reports. They
were not particularly kind.


"Dan Duncan" > wrote in message
...
> Has anyone had any experience with the Saturn Relay?
>
> I spotted one the other day. I didn't even know they were out
> until then and hadn't seen any mention on this group about it.
>
> I checked out the information on Saturn's website, built my own,
> did side by side comparisons with a couple of other vehicles,
> etc, but I am looking for user input.
>
> -DanD
>
> --
> # Dan Duncan (kd4igw) http://pcisys.net/~dand
> # Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty
> # without any proof. -Ashley Montague

First of all, let me make it clear that Consumer Reports HATES Saturns, they
are very biased and just dont get it, forget anything that CR says. Most
products that CS "suggests" are actually sponsor paid even though they claim
they are independent. What is independent is the CR reporters opinion which
has always been negative about Saturn from day one.

If you want a more honest and valuable opinion, I suggest Consumer Guide
they are more intelligent and car knowlegeble.

That out of the way, the Relay is a new direction for Saturn, in which they
share platform and design with other American GM products, ex: Buick Terraza
and Chevy.
Check out the article by Edmunds.com, suprising that they gave the Relay
rave reviews. They are usually pretty tough to get such a nice review from,
but they loved the Relay.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=103417

IMHO, the Relay is a fresh breath of air for Saturn, which still gives ppl
alot of bang for thier buck, especially considering the price vs all the
standard (not optional) features. This is also thier 1st all metal body
vehicle, allowing perfect fit and finish over the old polymer panels.

My pet peeves with the Relay a
1. As DVD is standard, it should come with a comprehensive DVD
instructional, instead of the standard audio CD. There are just too many
features on this thing to learn at one sitting.

2. the rugs could be a bit thicker, this si for transporting mess kids,
remember?

3. The second row leather captains chairs in the Relay.3 should be made as
easily removable as the level 2 captain seats are. The Relay.2 seats are a
breeze to take out and put back in, the Relay.3 remove differently and can
be impossible for a small person to manipulate. (but then again, how many
times would someone buy a fully loaded luxury van just to remove the seats?)

The pros:
More features are standard than the competition.
Quiet, efficient engine, can tow 3000lbs.
Soft but solid comfortable suspension and ride.
25 gallon gas tank.
Incredible sound system (I thought it was a Bose the 1st time I heard it)
Good looks, small profile.
Ergonomic and comfortable interior.
Tons of safety features.

marx404

Dan Duncan wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with the Saturn Relay?
>
> I spotted one the other day. I didn't even know they were out
> until then and hadn't seen any mention on this group about it.
>
> I checked out the information on Saturn's website, built my own,
> did side by side comparisons with a couple of other vehicles,
> etc, but I am looking for user input.
>
> -DanD
>
We've had ours (Relay 3) since November, we took delivery of the second
one the dealer got in. So far we have been quite happy with it. It is
much quieter than my 2004 Vue V6 AWD but not nearly as quick. The
entertainment system is very nice, but can be confusing. I found the
driving position a bit odd, but could find a comfortable adjustment. I
am a little disappointed in the internal cargo space, however I may be
spoiled since my previous van was a VW Eurovan. Saturn could have
stretched the tail 8-12" IMHO.
Paul Elliot
SJ, CA

--
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to
society" - Theodore Roosevelt

Whether you want to agree with CR or not, and many times I don't, there is
no evidence that they are nothing but completely independent. Their reviews
are not sponsored as you claim. Unfortunately, the Relay aparently is noisy
and has a lousy ride compared to the competition. GM basically re-worked an
8 year old platform to produce it and it shows.


"marx404" > wrote in message
...
> First of all, let me make it clear that Consumer Reports HATES Saturns,
> they
> are very biased and just dont get it, forget anything that CR says. Most
> products that CS "suggests" are actually sponsor paid even though they
> claim
> they are independent. What is independent is the CR reporters opinion
> which
> has always been negative about Saturn from day one.
>
> If you want a more honest and valuable opinion, I suggest Consumer Guide
> they are more intelligent and car knowlegeble.
>
> That out of the way, the Relay is a new direction for Saturn, in which
> they
> share platform and design with other American GM products, ex: Buick
> Terraza
> and Chevy.
> Check out the article by Edmunds.com, suprising that they gave the Relay
> rave reviews. They are usually pretty tough to get such a nice review
> from,
> but they loved the Relay.
>
> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=103417
>
> IMHO, the Relay is a fresh breath of air for Saturn, which still gives ppl
> alot of bang for thier buck, especially considering the price vs all the
> standard (not optional) features. This is also thier 1st all metal body
> vehicle, allowing perfect fit and finish over the old polymer panels.
>
> My pet peeves with the Relay a
> 1. As DVD is standard, it should come with a comprehensive DVD
> instructional, instead of the standard audio CD. There are just too many
> features on this thing to learn at one sitting.
>
> 2. the rugs could be a bit thicker, this si for transporting mess kids,
> remember?
>
> 3. The second row leather captains chairs in the Relay.3 should be made as
> easily removable as the level 2 captain seats are. The Relay.2 seats are a
> breeze to take out and put back in, the Relay.3 remove differently and can
> be impossible for a small person to manipulate. (but then again, how many
> times would someone buy a fully loaded luxury van just to remove the
> seats?)
>
> The pros:
> More features are standard than the competition.
> Quiet, efficient engine, can tow 3000lbs.
> Soft but solid comfortable suspension and ride.
> 25 gallon gas tank.
> Incredible sound system (I thought it was a Bose the 1st time I heard it)
> Good looks, small profile.
> Ergonomic and comfortable interior.
> Tons of safety features.
>
> marx404
>
>

By the way my elderly parents bought a Saturn L300 wagon.... one of the last
ones available. They wanted a small wagon to hold a walker easily in the
back and there are very few choices on the market. They got the V6 with
leather and all options with a 2 or 3 thousand dollar rebate because they
weren't selling too well. Anyway I've owned Toyotas, Subarus, Chryslers, a
Chevy, Fords and some others but I cannot believe how poorly handling and
noisy the L300 is. And the V6 is weaker than many four's I've owned. I've
probably put more miles on it then he has over the last year and if this is
the best GM can do in a medium size car they might as well give up.


"Art" > wrote in message
news
> Whether you want to agree with CR or not, and many times I don't, there is
> no evidence that they are nothing but completely independent. Their
> reviews are not sponsored as you claim. Unfortunately, the Relay
> aparently is noisy and has a lousy ride compared to the competition. GM
> basically re-worked an 8 year old platform to produce it and it shows.
>
>
> "marx404" > wrote in message
> ...
>> First of all, let me make it clear that Consumer Reports HATES Saturns,
>> they
>> are very biased and just dont get it, forget anything that CR says. Most
>> products that CS "suggests" are actually sponsor paid even though they
>> claim
>> they are independent. What is independent is the CR reporters opinion
>> which
>> has always been negative about Saturn from day one.
>>
>> If you want a more honest and valuable opinion, I suggest Consumer Guide
>> they are more intelligent and car knowlegeble.
>>
>> That out of the way, the Relay is a new direction for Saturn, in which
>> they
>> share platform and design with other American GM products, ex: Buick
>> Terraza
>> and Chevy.
>> Check out the article by Edmunds.com, suprising that they gave the Relay
>> rave reviews. They are usually pretty tough to get such a nice review
>> from,
>> but they loved the Relay.
>>
>> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=103417
>>
>> IMHO, the Relay is a fresh breath of air for Saturn, which still gives
>> ppl
>> alot of bang for thier buck, especially considering the price vs all the
>> standard (not optional) features. This is also thier 1st all metal body
>> vehicle, allowing perfect fit and finish over the old polymer panels.
>>
>> My pet peeves with the Relay a
>> 1. As DVD is standard, it should come with a comprehensive DVD
>> instructional, instead of the standard audio CD. There are just too many
>> features on this thing to learn at one sitting.
>>
>> 2. the rugs could be a bit thicker, this si for transporting mess kids,
>> remember?
>>
>> 3. The second row leather captains chairs in the Relay.3 should be made
>> as
>> easily removable as the level 2 captain seats are. The Relay.2 seats are
>> a
>> breeze to take out and put back in, the Relay.3 remove differently and
>> can
>> be impossible for a small person to manipulate. (but then again, how many
>> times would someone buy a fully loaded luxury van just to remove the
>> seats?)
>>
>> The pros:
>> More features are standard than the competition.
>> Quiet, efficient engine, can tow 3000lbs.
>> Soft but solid comfortable suspension and ride.
>> 25 gallon gas tank.
>> Incredible sound system (I thought it was a Bose the 1st time I heard it)
>> Good looks, small profile.
>> Ergonomic and comfortable interior.
>> Tons of safety features.
>>
>> marx404
>>
>>
>
>

Dan Duncan wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with the Saturn Relay?
>
> I spotted one the other day. I didn't even know they were out
> until then and hadn't seen any mention on this group about it.
>
> I checked out the information on Saturn's website, built my own,
> did side by side comparisons with a couple of other vehicles,
> etc, but I am looking for user input.

We're in the market for a minivan, so I checked them all out at the San
Jose Auto Show last month. The Relay looked pretty good, certainly GM's
best effort on a minivan, but it was not up to the standard of Odyssey
or Sienna.

Down sides of the Relay are mainly in the safety and performance areas.

Side-curtain airbags not available, and front seat side airbags an
extra cost option. On all the Odyssey's, the curtain air-bags and side
airbags are standard, while you can get them on all but the CE version
of the Sienna at extra cost (included in the XLE Limited).

Acceleration that is okay, but not nearly as good as the Odyssey, and a
little worse than the Sienna (which itself is barely adequate). Despite
the poorer performance, the fuel economy is slightly worse on the
Relay, though not by a lot.

Odyssey
0-60: 6.4
MPG: 19/25

Sienna
0-60: 8.1
MPG: 19/26

Relay
0-60: 9.7
MPG: 18/24

Not sure how much the Relay acutally sells for, but it would be an okay
deal at around $20K. I checked CarsDirect, which tends to be on the
high side, and the Relay shows up at $23,375, the Odyssey LX goes for
$25,010, and the Sienna CE goes for around $22,500 (this is for
Southern California). Personally, I like the Sienna better than the
Odyssey, and it's rated higher for safety.

Again, not sure of how much the dealer will haggle on the Relay, or
what incentives are in place, but $23,375 is too high, when you can get
a Sienna for $900 less, and an Odyssey for $1600 more (you'll save far,
far more than this in resale value with the Odyssey, since Hondas have
resale value beyond all reason!).

Check out Consumer Reports. They're the best source for unbiased
information about vehicles, since they don't accept any advertising.
Most of the other automobile magazines, and consumer magazines, base
their review on the quantity of advertising that the company does,
while Consumer Reports isn't afraid to tell the truth.

Of course it's way too early to know about long term reliability on the
Relay, but as a brand, Saturn is just about in the middle of the pack,
a bit above average
("http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/releases/summary.asp?StudyID=860&CatID=1")
and of course far below Toyota or Honda. The Odyssey was rated as the
most dependable minivan in the 2004 study.

The Relay and the Sienna are made in the United States, the Odyssey is
made in Canada. The Sienna has 90% domestic content, I don't know the
percentage on the Relay (Ion is 85%) or the Odyssey (North American
built Accords have 97%). I've never considered Canadian-built or
Mexican-built cars to be domestics, despite the convoluted domestic
content laws.

In summary, you might wait a year if you want a Relay, and see if they
offer the curtain airbags and a more powerful engine.

quote: In summary, you might wait a year if you want a Relay, and see if
they
offer the curtain airbags and a more powerful engine.

Of all the things said so far, this I agree with the most. This is a 1st
year mode, who knows what yr 2 will bring. As far as the Relay engine, can
you say "NAFTA"? Im quite embarrassed to tell ppl that the engine is made in
Mexico. The remaining parts are supposedly made and assembled in Doraville,
GA., Saturns newer plant.

I too would like to see a more powerful engineand standard side airbags on
both 2 and 3 models. DVD and rear AC controls could be seperated and
simplified. Maybe next year. As I said before, in my experience so far,
despite some shortcomings, the Relay has been doing well and is a strong
competitor in this market against the competitors, especially at the price
according to my customers.

marx404

right on Art.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:14:45 GMT, "Art"
> wrote:

>Whether you want to agree with CR or not, and many times I don't, there is
>no evidence that they are nothing but completely independent. Their reviews
>are not sponsored as you claim. Unfortunately, the Relay aparently is noisy
>and has a lousy ride compared to the competition. GM basically re-worked an
>8 year old platform to produce it and it shows.
>
>
>"marx404" > wrote in message
...
>> First of all, let me make it clear that Consumer Reports HATES Saturns,
>> they
>> are very biased and just dont get it, forget anything that CR says. Most
>> products that CS "suggests" are actually sponsor paid even though they
>> claim
>> they are independent. What is independent is the CR reporters opinion
>> which
>> has always been negative about Saturn from day one.
>>
>> If you want a more honest and valuable opinion, I suggest Consumer Guide
>> they are more intelligent and car knowlegeble.
>>
>> That out of the way, the Relay is a new direction for Saturn, in which
>> they
>> share platform and design with other American GM products, ex: Buick
>> Terraza
>> and Chevy.
>> Check out the article by Edmunds.com, suprising that they gave the Relay
>> rave reviews. They are usually pretty tough to get such a nice review
>> from,
>> but they loved the Relay.
>>
>> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=103417
>>
>> IMHO, the Relay is a fresh breath of air for Saturn, which still gives ppl
>> alot of bang for thier buck, especially considering the price vs all the
>> standard (not optional) features. This is also thier 1st all metal body
>> vehicle, allowing perfect fit and finish over the old polymer panels.
>>
>> My pet peeves with the Relay a
>> 1. As DVD is standard, it should come with a comprehensive DVD
>> instructional, instead of the standard audio CD. There are just too many
>> features on this thing to learn at one sitting.
>>
>> 2. the rugs could be a bit thicker, this si for transporting mess kids,
>> remember?
>>
>> 3. The second row leather captains chairs in the Relay.3 should be made as
>> easily removable as the level 2 captain seats are. The Relay.2 seats are a
>> breeze to take out and put back in, the Relay.3 remove differently and can
>> be impossible for a small person to manipulate. (but then again, how many
>> times would someone buy a fully loaded luxury van just to remove the
>> seats?)
>>
>> The pros:
>> More features are standard than the competition.
>> Quiet, efficient engine, can tow 3000lbs.
>> Soft but solid comfortable suspension and ride.
>> 25 gallon gas tank.
>> Incredible sound system (I thought it was a Bose the 1st time I heard it)
>> Good looks, small profile.
>> Ergonomic and comfortable interior.
>> Tons of safety features.
>>
>> marx404
>>
>>
>

"Art" > wrote in
nk.net:

> By the way my elderly parents bought a Saturn L300 wagon.... one of
> the last ones available. They wanted a small wagon to hold a walker
> easily in the back and there are very few choices on the market. They
> got the V6 with leather and all options with a 2 or 3 thousand dollar
> rebate because they weren't selling too well. Anyway I've owned
> Toyotas, Subarus, Chryslers, a Chevy, Fords and some others but I
> cannot believe how poorly handling and noisy the L300 is. And the V6
> is weaker than many four's I've owned. I've probably put more miles
> on it then he has over the last year and if this is the best GM can do
> in a medium size car they might as well give up.
>
>

Fwiw, we bought a LW200 with the 4 cylinder and manual 5-speed.
With the money saved on the manual transmission we opted for the leather
interior with heated seats. It was all built to order for us back in
2001.

I won't say we have not had some trouble with it, and it's short
production run means tlented service mechanics are rare but it is a
great car. Plenty of power, fairly fast, great mileage, quiet (comapred
to other Saturns), and drives well on mountain roads and slick terrain.

Although previously owned two SL2's and a SW2, and my MIL owning three
SC2's, it isn't my favorite Saturn (the SW2 takes that trophy) - it is a
very good car.

I thought the VUE had too high a center of gravity - though I also
preferred driving a VUE to the Lexus RX300 (huh, go figure).

Do I like where Saturn is going now? Nope, I think they missed their
market. Maybe they are trying to expand - or maybe they are trying to
shft with their demographic; the standard equipment on the Relay is
cool, and nicely priced -- but Saturn is approaching that level of
detailing and finish where they will lose.

If I could afford either the RX300 or the VUE AWD which do you think I
would pick? The Lexus becuase we are generally a more vain society than
a practical one; so what if I liked the VUE's handling better.

Same for the Relay. It isn't designed for larger folks - none of Saturns
are really. In fact the LW200 is the first car that my 6' frame fits
well into, but I have still hit my head on the door jamb climbing in/out
once or twice.

The Relay is a few days late to the mini-van market, and a lot short on
pieces that count. They have the entertainment system and cool storage
pockets, but the road noise will make it a pain to constantly adjust the
volume. And the storage pockets are unuseable if you carry nearly
ANYTHING else in the vehicle becuase there just isn't the cargo space.