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KH Test Kit - really needed?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 4th 04, 06:41 PM
Rick
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Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked

to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a

particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?
Regards,
Richard.

baking soda , regardless of how much you add will only max your PH out at
about 8.3-8.4 and raise your KH at the same time. They are linked because
buffering your water with baking soda to raise the PH will raise the KH and
lowering your hardness (KH ) say using R/O water will lower your PH values.
You can create your own table by measuring your KH and PH and they will stay
consistent with each other. So you start with a known Ph and Kh which is
your current tank water. Add one tablespoon of baking soda , wait for a half
hour or so and take another measurement of both. Write the info down. If
your still far off from where you want to be ( I have no idea how big your
tank is) you can add another tbls and take another measurement. As you get
close to the parameters you want you may only add one tsp. You keep tract of
the amounts to get your entire tank to the levels you want then when you do
a water change you will know how much to add to the new water. Check out the
link below, from the Malawi cichlid Home Page which IMO is one of the best
all around cichlid sites.

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com...wi10.html#soda

Rick


  #12  
Old March 4th 04, 06:48 PM
Richard Phillips
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.
R.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I see,
So you are saying that with a KH test kit, it's easier to gauge how much
baking soda to add to achieve a particular KH (and hence a particular

pH)?
Roughly how closely linked are KH and pH values? I know they are linked

to
eachother in chemistry terms, but does it usually hold that at a

particular
KH you tend to have a particular pH?
Regards,
Richard.

baking soda , regardless of how much you add will only max your PH out at
about 8.3-8.4 and raise your KH at the same time. They are linked because
buffering your water with baking soda to raise the PH will raise the KH

and
lowering your hardness (KH ) say using R/O water will lower your PH

values.
You can create your own table by measuring your KH and PH and they will

stay
consistent with each other. So you start with a known Ph and Kh which is
your current tank water. Add one tablespoon of baking soda , wait for a

half
hour or so and take another measurement of both. Write the info down. If
your still far off from where you want to be ( I have no idea how big your
tank is) you can add another tbls and take another measurement. As you get
close to the parameters you want you may only add one tsp. You keep tract

of
the amounts to get your entire tank to the levels you want then when you

do
a water change you will know how much to add to the new water. Check out

the
link below, from the Malawi cichlid Home Page which IMO is one of the best
all around cichlid sites.

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com...wi10.html#soda

Rick




  #13  
Old March 4th 04, 07:12 PM
Rick
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
He did say they aren't linked "1:1", I think he means that low pH and low

KH
tend to go together, but there is not a predictable relationship (unless I
guess, you get very scientific about it?!).
R.



you can have very hard water with a high KH and a very low PH. Using CO2
will lower your Ph but not your KH which is what people like me with planted
tanks do all the time. My 77g tank has a PH of 6.5 and a KH of 70 PPM and GH
of 100. Basically the PH of your water is determined by the combination of
CO2 and KH . You can take water right out of the tap and the gas content
will be high and your PH will be low. Add an airstone to it and remeasure
and the PH will be much higher as the gas content is expelled. Anyway it can
get very confusing at times but I think you can figure it out.

Rick


  #14  
Old March 4th 04, 07:14 PM
Richard Phillips
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?

Ok, you got very scientific about it
I have a lot of reading to do tonight!
R.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
He did say they aren't linked "1:1", I think he means that low pH and

low
KH
tend to go together, but there is not a predictable relationship (unless

I
guess, you get very scientific about it?!).
R.



you can have very hard water with a high KH and a very low PH. Using CO2
will lower your Ph but not your KH which is what people like me with

planted
tanks do all the time. My 77g tank has a PH of 6.5 and a KH of 70 PPM and

GH
of 100. Basically the PH of your water is determined by the combination

of
CO2 and KH . You can take water right out of the tap and the gas content
will be high and your PH will be low. Add an airstone to it and remeasure
and the PH will be much higher as the gas content is expelled. Anyway it

can
get very confusing at times but I think you can figure it out.

Rick




  #15  
Old March 4th 04, 07:56 PM
Rick
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
...
Ok, you got very scientific about it
I have a lot of reading to do tonight!
R.


I also participate in an Aquarium Plants group where the relationship of
CO2/KH /GH and PH is one of the most common topics. There are as many
different opinions on these topics as topics themselves!!. Here is another
link to some stuff on the Krib site which you may as well read while your at
it.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html#reference

Rick


  #16  
Old March 6th 04, 01:04 AM
battlelance
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:25:35 -0600, "Rick"
wrote:


you read those articles and came to the conclusion that PH and KH are not
linked??


I think you may want to take your time and re-read what I said.

  #17  
Old March 6th 04, 01:08 AM
battlelance
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Default KH Test Kit - really needed?

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.


I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.



  #18  
Old March 6th 04, 04:01 AM
Rick
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Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.


I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.


really, so if you had say a 240 gallon tank with a Ph of 7.5 and wanted to
raise it to say 8.2 you would not add a tablespoon or two of baking soda to
begin with and then work from there?. You could dump the whole box of baking
soda into a tank and you cannot raise the pH beyond 8.2 to 8.4 however you
can raise the KH. For example my 66 gallon Mbuna tank started out with a Ph
of 7.5 and Kh of 70. I wanted to raise the PH to 8.0 and KH to the 140-170
range. Following the instructions of George Reclos (chemist by trade and one
of the people responsible for setting up the Malawi Cichlid site) I added 2
tsps of baking soda and then took some more readings. I then added another
tsp so I'm up to one tbsp in a 66 g tank to get it to the parameters I
wanted. The original poster has not mentioned the size of his tank and when
I gave the example of adding a tbsp of baking soda I pointed out that I had
no idea how big his tank is. I'm pretty confident from reading his posts
that he is a pretty intelligent guy that can figure out if he is dealing
with a 20 g tank he is not going to dump in 2 tbsp of baking soda however if
he has that big big tank then it is going to take more than a tbsp to raise
his PH depending on his starting point. You provided him links for reference
and so did I. I think he can figure out the rest. BTW in my case with my 66
I add 2.5 tsp of baking soda or almost a tbsp at every water change to keep
it in the area where I want it. Good advice on adding the salts, I do add
Epsom salt along with my baking soda. If I had Tanganykan cichlids I would
probably add trace but I don't find it necessary with Mbuana's.

Rick


  #19  
Old March 6th 04, 06:29 AM
Rick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"battlelance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:05 -0000, "Richard Phillips"
wrote:

Ok,
Thanks Rick.
I shall check that link out now.


I would -never- add tablespoons of baking soda at a time, what a
horrid idea! You run the risk of raising the pH and KH too high, too
quickly, and causing undue stress or even death.

Read the rift lake buffer recipe from cichlid-forum and follow the
instructions on creating your own mix that is applicable to your tap
water chemistry, and add it slowly.

As well, while your adding baking soda, you might as well add epsom
salt (raise the GH) and marine salt to add some trace minerals.




I will wrap up my involvement in this thread with a couple of last points
seeing as how you and I seem to have gotten somewhat away from the original
posters question, which if you read back was a pretty simple one. The
example I gave about adding tbsp of baking soda was just that, an example. I
could have said to use a pinch, tsp etc etc. It was simply an example. You
suggest that he add Epsom salts and marine salts for trace without even
knowing what kind of fish the man has. The only hint might be that he
referenced a site with information about Oscars which if that is what he has
then he does not need marine or epsom salts in his tank. I also have mixed
feelings about PH swings causing stress and death to fish. My personal
experience does not support that fact. For example my planted tank has a ph
of 6.5-6.6. I have 35 aquariums and breed a variety of fish with different
water conditions from peat filtered water, r/o water , straight tap water
and buffered water for my Africans. I have taken livebearers from their
tank, PH 7.7 , netted them out and put them directly into my planted tank
and never have had a problem. I have CO2 injection in my planted tank and
ran out awhile back. Before I noticed my PH had risen to 7.3. I had my tank
filled and hooked things back up however set my bubble rate too high and 12
hours later I measure my PH with my electronic meter and have a PH of 6.2 ,
less than 12 hours later I had it up to 6.8 and then back to 6.5-6.6. Not a
single loss of a fish. I breed 15 different varieties of Corydoras and
Aspidoras. To induce spawning activity I do large 50-75% water changes. Most
of their tanks are neutral or slightly acidic water which gets replaced with
straight dechlorinated tap water reducing the water temp by about 5 degrees
and immediately raising the PH by at least .5 to .6. Never a problem but
lots of spawning activity. Famed Discus breeder Jack Wattley in order to
treat a bacterial problem in his fish reduced the Ph of his water from 6
down to 3.8 , doing so in .5 changes over 12 hours and then back up again
with no problems. So what does it all mean, simply what works for me might
not work for you. Take the info. provided which in the case of the original
poster was a lot more than he asked for , read, read and read more and make
your own decisions, find out what works for you and stick with it.

Regards.

Rick


  #20  
Old March 7th 04, 07:24 AM
NetMax
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default KH Test Kit - really needed?


"Richard Phillips" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Hello,

There is an article on www.oscarfish.com that advises a KH test kit is

one
of the important test kit to own (along with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,

pH).
I was all set to buy one, but then I spotted some API pH Up (my pH

tends to
be on the lower side) and was thinking about buying this aswell.
Now I don't understand what the point of owning a KH test kit is, since

if
my pH is low then won't I simply use pH Up to bring it back to the

6.5-7
mark regardless of the calcium carbonate levels?
I am guessing that pH Up probably modifies the ammount of calcium

carbonate
in order to adjust the pH, so what is the point of knowing KH aslong as

the
pH is correct?
Or am I missing somthing important about KH?

Regards,
Richard.


Having your pH on the low side, if that is what comes out of your tap is
ok, (if your fish is an Oscar). If the pH is much lower than your tap
pH, then something in your tank is acidifying the water, and it does this
by first bringing your kH to zero. This is why a kH test kit is useful.
If your kH checks out at 4dkH or higher, your pH will be solid (it might
be low, but it's stable). If your kH is much higher, then your pH will
be solid to the point of being difficult to change. If your kH is low,
(2-3 dkH), then it is susceptible to pH crashes, (this is when the pH
drops to very low 4s and 5s). Your strategy depends on the difference
between your source pH and your tank pH. For a more accurate reading,
let your tap sample air-out for a day before checking the pH.

If there is a difference in pH, then you have to determine why. Things
which typically pull your kH and then your pH down acidifying the water
in an Oscar tank is their solid waste. Break out the gravel vacuum. I
have a heavily loaded Oscar tank at work and we gravel vac every 3 days,
otherwise I would have to feed them a lot less food, and you know how
Oscars like their food ;~)

If the cause of your low pH is from detritus rotting in your gravel, then
the pH up or baking soda will only be temporary chemical treatments for
the side effects, and not the root cause. The effect of the chemicals
will vanish with water changes, and their use will be detrimental, as it
will cause a see-saw effect in the pH.

NetMax


 




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