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Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 9th 04, 03:09 PM
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:18:39 +0100, Tjaard de Vries
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:22:24 +0000, steve wrote:

I bought five wild J.ornatus in the mid seventies but have not seen
any since. A few of the other Julidochromis have been imported but
ornatus seem to be very rare.


hm, are you from the UK? (judging from the time zone). I'll do some
investigation concerning ornatus in shops, regani or marlieri are not done
in this tiny tank, but transcriptus or dickfeldi perhaps...?


I am in the UK.

anyways, I'll try to get some fine ornatus, the book I mentioned earlier
said that inbred specimens are recognizable by the fact their bands aren't
smooth bands anymore.


Unfortunately I am no longer physically capable of hunting around the
shops. My brother is still very active in the hobby. He tells me that
most of the UK "wild" stock now comes here via Holland. When I was
more active Tanganyika cichlids were shipped direct to London or
Manchester.

The last ornatus I saw for sale looked as if they were hybrids
(dickfeldi - ish). The only ornatus I have seen with regular bands
were wild ones. Tank bred ones get a bit fuzzy around the edges.

Steve
  #12  
Old March 9th 04, 03:12 PM
Tjaard de Vries
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:28:41 +0000, Fishman wrote:

Any collector around the lake won't compete with the quantity the 1000's of
locals catch for food!


hm, you've got a point there... I figure that there are too few
cichlidiots around the world to make it a threat then... however, I can
imagine that there are some malevolent people who try make quick money by
catching huge amounts of fish.

ah, well...

speaking of food... I believe that lake victoria's ecosystem was destroyed
by a nice man who wanted to help the locals because the fish present in
the lake were too bony...
  #13  
Old March 9th 04, 05:22 PM
Tjaard de Vries
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:09:48 +0000, steve wrote:

Unfortunately I am no longer physically capable of hunting around the
shops. My brother is still very active in the hobby. He tells me that
most of the UK "wild" stock now comes here via Holland. When I was
more active Tanganyika cichlids were shipped direct to London or
Manchester.


hey, I live in the Netherlands, could you ask for more details ?

The last ornatus I saw for sale looked as if they were hybrids
(dickfeldi - ish). The only ornatus I have seen with regular bands
were wild ones. Tank bred ones get a bit fuzzy around the edges.


that fuzzy stuff... I meant that when I mentioned the bands, sorry...
  #14  
Old March 9th 04, 05:30 PM
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:20 +0100, Tjaard de Vries
wrote:



speaking of food... I believe that lake victoria's ecosystem was destroyed
by a nice man who wanted to help the locals because the fish present in
the lake were too bony...


Introduced predators have reduced many of the Lake Victoria cichlids
to a very low level but, apparently, a few species are adapting.

A few years ago I was helping to train a programmer from Uganda. She
lived close to the lake and described the introduced plant problem
very well. "It's green all the way to the horizon".


  #15  
Old March 9th 04, 06:09 PM
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:22:38 +0100, Tjaard de Vries
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:09:48 +0000, steve wrote:

Unfortunately I am no longer physically capable of hunting around the
shops. My brother is still very active in the hobby. He tells me that
most of the UK "wild" stock now comes here via Holland. When I was
more active Tanganyika cichlids were shipped direct to London or
Manchester.


hey, I live in the Netherlands, could you ask for more details ?


That's why I was telling you where the UK stock came from. I was
thinking you would already know where the importer was in your
country. I would expect your shops will get their stock from the same
place. Maybe it's a secret!

I'll ask my brother for the importers name the next time I see him.
That's not very often so don't hold you breath.

Steve
  #16  
Old March 9th 04, 09:52 PM
Cichlidiot
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

Tjaard de Vries wrote:
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:31:01 +0000, Cichlidiot wrote:


Well, just checked a few online Tanganyikan dealers I know of and Armke's
has F1 J. ornatus for sale. There's also the albino ornatus at a couple of
places. You might be able to find more if you search around a little.


online dealers :S ?


hm, I live in the Netherlands, there are some nice shops around here, but
this F1 thing:


I remember something about genetics in biology class, is the F1 from: P:
parentes (wild caught in this case), F1: filii 1 (the first generation
descendants of P)?
I'm always afraid that the fish in a store of a species in a tank are all
siblings... .


F1 does mean spawn of wild caught fish, however, you don't always get
siblings in a tank of F1s. For example, I have three sets of F1 Neolamp.
similis from different pairings, two of almost identical age. Two groups
have the same mother and different fathers. The third group is from the
other female and a third male. So I could sell them all locally as F1
similis, but they would not all be related. Likewise, if you deal directly
with a breeder, you can see if they have different spawning pairs and
request fry from different pairs if you are concerned about genetic
diversity. As long as it doesn't put an undue workload on the breeder of
course. Key thing is to establish relationships with the breeders by
talking with them. Even if they don't have multiple pairs or spawns, they
may know of other breeders and could help you get in contact with them.
  #17  
Old March 10th 04, 12:48 AM
Amateur
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?


"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Any collector around the lake won't compete with the quantity the 1000's of
locals catch for food!



That may be true in some of the species. But the fishermen typically stick to
the larger species for food or species that they can collect in quantity.
Feather fins don't offer much in the way of meat. I saw more catfish being
caught. The Boulengerochromis and various large catfish were also popular along
with the perch.
I'm afraid with species like the afore mentioned Tropheus and Ophthalmotilapia
boops "neon streak", the collectors are the ones responsible for decimating the
populations. Not all the collectors, but it only really takes one.
AC


  #18  
Old March 10th 04, 01:28 AM
Fishman
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

Fair comment although I can't imagine any of the food fisherman returning
anything edible back to the lake - rare or not.

Arn't the exporting fish collectors licenced (as they are on Lake Malawi) or
is it country dependant / not enforced.
If so the licencing authorities ought to restrict / ban the export of
threatened species.


  #19  
Old March 10th 04, 02:45 AM
Amateur
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Default Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?


"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Fair comment although I can't imagine any of the food fisherman returning
anything edible back to the lake - rare or not.

Arn't the exporting fish collectors licenced (as they are on Lake Malawi) or
is it country dependant / not enforced.
If so the licencing authorities ought to restrict / ban the export of
threatened species.



True enough. Anything caught is most likely eaten. And the gill nets due a fair
job of killing some fish. Mostly the large Petrochromis. They've done a good job
on the Cyathopharynx population in one area I saw.
The collectors are licensed, although it's more so the government gets there cut
of the fundage more than a means to restrict what's collected. The ACA and
people like Paul Loiselle I believe are working on trying to protect species
that are threatened. You may find some more info on their site.
AC


 




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