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Engine misses & backfires



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 05, 06:09 PM
Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Engine misses & backfires

Hey All!

Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
more info...

1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.

When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.

Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.

In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).

Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took
it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and
the car was running good again.

Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring
especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the
plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the
heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not
functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when
they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and
that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds
like utter BS to me.)

I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle
you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on).
Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts.

There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it
was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires.
It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the
instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that
matter) works great.

This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine
warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs
is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c
you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and
lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and
backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed
(70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear)
any backfiring.

So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable,
new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.

Suggestions?

Phil

Ads
  #2  
Old June 2nd 05, 07:28 PM
TNKEV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> Hey All!
>
> Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
> possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
> more info...
>
> 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
> bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.
>
> When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
> injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.
>
> Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
> miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
> January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.
>
> In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
> shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
> up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
> were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
> distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).


Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be
replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked spark
plugs?


  #3  
Old June 2nd 05, 08:23 PM
Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:28:08 -0500, "TNKEV"
> wrote:

>
>Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be
>replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked spark
>plugs?


Yes and they did that too.

One thing I forgot to mention was that last week I let the car idle
for about 30 minutes and it started smoking very badly from the
exhaust (grey smoke). After driving the car for about 2 miles the
smoking cleared up and it has not smoked since.

I am not suffering any loss of oil or coolant. The coolant shows no
signs of a cracked or damanged head gasket nor does the oil show the
milky white that you see.

  #4  
Old June 2nd 05, 10:39 PM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think you've not found all the bad ignition parts they put in. Start
over, and get quality parts. There are some real crap aftermarket
electrical parts out there and some shops get whatever off-brand is on
the shelf.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


Howdy wrote:

> Hey All!
>
> Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
> possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
> more info...
>
> 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
> bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.
>
> When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
> injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.
>
> Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
> miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
> January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.
>
> In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
> shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
> up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
> were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
> distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).
>
> Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took
> it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and
> the car was running good again.
>
> Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring
> especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the
> plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the
> heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not
> functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when
> they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and
> that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds
> like utter BS to me.)
>
> I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle
> you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on).
> Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts.
>
> There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it
> was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires.
> It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the
> instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that
> matter) works great.
>
> This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine
> warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs
> is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c
> you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and
> lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and
> backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed
> (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear)
> any backfiring.
>
> So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable,
> new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Phil
>

  #5  
Old June 3rd 05, 12:05 AM
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:28:08 -0500, "TNKEV"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be
>>replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked
>>spark
>>plugs?

>
> Yes and they did that too.
>
> One thing I forgot to mention was that last week I let the car idle
> for about 30 minutes and it started smoking very badly from the
> exhaust (grey smoke). After driving the car for about 2 miles the
> smoking cleared up and it has not smoked since.
>
> I am not suffering any loss of oil or coolant. The coolant shows no
> signs of a cracked or damanged head gasket nor does the oil show the
> milky white that you see.


Same thing happened to my lincoln Continental. Gassed up. Turned on the car
heard a loud pop and headed home. Looked like the space shuttle with the two
white smoke trails from the back of the car. Got home opened the hood.
coolant level was fine. Next day started it no problems at all. The day
after the car overheated from lack off coolant. Blown headgasket. So you
might have one.


  #6  
Old June 3rd 05, 03:40 AM
mic canic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

more than likely the dist. is failing

Howdy wrote:

> Hey All!
>
> Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
> possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
> more info...
>
> 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
> bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.
>
> When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
> injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.
>
> Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
> miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
> January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.
>
> In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
> shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
> up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
> were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
> distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).
>
> Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took
> it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and
> the car was running good again.
>
> Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring
> especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the
> plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the
> heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not
> functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when
> they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and
> that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds
> like utter BS to me.)
>
> I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle
> you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on).
> Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts.
>
> There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it
> was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires.
> It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the
> instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that
> matter) works great.
>
> This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine
> warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs
> is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c
> you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and
> lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and
> backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed
> (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear)
> any backfiring.
>
> So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable,
> new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Phil


  #7  
Old June 4th 05, 08:53 PM
Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I was back to my shop with it and they could induce the miss by
"romping"on the accelerator from idle. It occured almost immediately.
'
This shop does not have an ODB-II diagnostic machine they simply have
a code reader... and since there are no codes to read this one is
difficult.

Again, they want to replace the heads but logically it just doesn't
make sense to me and I'm not one for playing "swap-the-part" until the
problem is found.

I was putting something in the trunk this morning and I noticed that
that the inside of the tailpipe is covered in black soot... which
would indicate to me a too-rich fuel mixture and that has me thinking
O2 sensors.

Any other thoughts?


>Hey All!
>
>Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
>possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
>more info...
>
>1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
>bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.
>
>When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
>injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.
>
>Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
>miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
>January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.
>
>In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
>shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
>up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
>were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
>distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).
>
>Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took
>it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and
>the car was running good again.
>
>Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring
>especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the
>plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the
>heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not
>functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when
>they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and
>that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds
>like utter BS to me.)
>
>I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle
>you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on).
>Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts.
>
>There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it
>was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires.
>It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the
>instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that
>matter) works great.
>
>This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine
>warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs
>is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c
>you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and
>lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and
>backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed
>(70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear)
>any backfiring.
>
>So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable,
>new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.
>
>Suggestions?
>
>Phil


  #8  
Old June 4th 05, 10:35 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> Hey All!
>
> Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as
> possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need
> more info...
>
> 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I
> bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter.
>
> When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel
> injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg.
>
> Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000
> miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past
> January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg.
>
> In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new
> shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered
> up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires
> were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new
> distributor cap and rotor button (another $450).
>
> Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took
> it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and
> the car was running good again.
>
> Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring
> especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the
> plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the
> heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not
> functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when
> they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and
> that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds
> like utter BS to me.)
>
> I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle
> you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on).
> Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts.
>
> There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it
> was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires.
> It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the
> instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that
> matter) works great.
>
> This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine
> warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs
> is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c
> you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and
> lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and
> backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed
> (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear)
> any backfiring.
>
> So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable,
> new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Phil
>

Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the problem,
it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for
the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem.
Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in
second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and
let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer to
learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which
cylinder is misfiring.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech


  #9  
Old June 6th 05, 03:51 PM
Howdy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

[snip]

>Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the problem,
>it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for
>the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem.
>Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in
>second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and
>let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer to
>learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which
>cylinder is misfiring.
>
>Glenn Beasley
>Chrysler Tech
>

Glen,

Thanks! That got me a check engine light... is there any way to do a
manual PCM code check on a 1999 Sebring?

Phil
  #10  
Old June 6th 05, 07:41 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Howdy" > wrote in message
...
> [snip]
>
> >Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the

problem,
> >it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for
> >the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem.
> >Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in
> >second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and
> >let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer

to
> >learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which
> >cylinder is misfiring.
> >
> >Glenn Beasley
> >Chrysler Tech
> >

> Glen,
>
> Thanks! That got me a check engine light... is there any way to do a
> manual PCM code check on a 1999 Sebring?
>
> Phil


I would have all codes read by a scan tool along with all freeze frame
data., but take it to someone that is familiar with the vehicle


 




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