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Engine misses & backfires
Hey All!
Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need more info... 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and the car was running good again. Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds like utter BS to me.) I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on). Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts. There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires. It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that matter) works great. This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear) any backfiring. So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable, new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Suggestions? Phil |
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#2
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"Howdy" > wrote in message ... > Hey All! > > Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as > possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need > more info... > > 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I > bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. > > When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel > injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. > > Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 > miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past > January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. > > In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new > shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered > up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires > were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new > distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked spark plugs? |
#3
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:28:08 -0500, "TNKEV"
> wrote: > >Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be >replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked spark >plugs? Yes and they did that too. One thing I forgot to mention was that last week I let the car idle for about 30 minutes and it started smoking very badly from the exhaust (grey smoke). After driving the car for about 2 miles the smoking cleared up and it has not smoked since. I am not suffering any loss of oil or coolant. The coolant shows no signs of a cracked or damanged head gasket nor does the oil show the milky white that you see. |
#4
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I think you've not found all the bad ignition parts they put in. Start
over, and get quality parts. There are some real crap aftermarket electrical parts out there and some shops get whatever off-brand is on the shelf. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x') Howdy wrote: > Hey All! > > Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as > possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need > more info... > > 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I > bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. > > When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel > injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. > > Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 > miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past > January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. > > In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new > shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered > up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires > were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new > distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). > > Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took > it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and > the car was running good again. > > Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring > especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the > plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the > heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not > functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when > they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and > that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds > like utter BS to me.) > > I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle > you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on). > Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts. > > There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it > was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires. > It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the > instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that > matter) works great. > > This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine > warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs > is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c > you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and > lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and > backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed > (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear) > any backfiring. > > So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable, > new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. > > Suggestions? > > Phil > |
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"Howdy" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:28:08 -0500, "TNKEV" > > wrote: > >> >>Sounds like the valve cover gaskets and spark plug tube seals need to be >>replaced,did they suggest that you do that when they pulled oil soaked >>spark >>plugs? > > Yes and they did that too. > > One thing I forgot to mention was that last week I let the car idle > for about 30 minutes and it started smoking very badly from the > exhaust (grey smoke). After driving the car for about 2 miles the > smoking cleared up and it has not smoked since. > > I am not suffering any loss of oil or coolant. The coolant shows no > signs of a cracked or damanged head gasket nor does the oil show the > milky white that you see. Same thing happened to my lincoln Continental. Gassed up. Turned on the car heard a loud pop and headed home. Looked like the space shuttle with the two white smoke trails from the back of the car. Got home opened the hood. coolant level was fine. Next day started it no problems at all. The day after the car overheated from lack off coolant. Blown headgasket. So you might have one. |
#6
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more than likely the dist. is failing
Howdy wrote: > Hey All! > > Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as > possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need > more info... > > 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I > bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. > > When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel > injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. > > Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 > miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past > January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. > > In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new > shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered > up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires > were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new > distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). > > Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took > it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and > the car was running good again. > > Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring > especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the > plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the > heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not > functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when > they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and > that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds > like utter BS to me.) > > I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle > you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on). > Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts. > > There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it > was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires. > It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the > instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that > matter) works great. > > This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine > warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs > is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c > you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and > lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and > backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed > (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear) > any backfiring. > > So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable, > new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. > > Suggestions? > > Phil |
#7
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I was back to my shop with it and they could induce the miss by
"romping"on the accelerator from idle. It occured almost immediately. ' This shop does not have an ODB-II diagnostic machine they simply have a code reader... and since there are no codes to read this one is difficult. Again, they want to replace the heads but logically it just doesn't make sense to me and I'm not one for playing "swap-the-part" until the problem is found. I was putting something in the trunk this morning and I noticed that that the inside of the tailpipe is covered in black soot... which would indicate to me a too-rich fuel mixture and that has me thinking O2 sensors. Any other thoughts? >Hey All! > >Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as >possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need >more info... > >1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I >bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. > >When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel >injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. > >Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 >miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past >January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. > >In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new >shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered >up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires >were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new >distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). > >Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took >it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and >the car was running good again. > >Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring >especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the >plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the >heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not >functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when >they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and >that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds >like utter BS to me.) > >I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle >you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on). >Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts. > >There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it >was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires. >It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the >instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that >matter) works great. > >This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine >warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs >is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c >you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and >lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and >backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed >(70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear) >any backfiring. > >So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable, >new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. > >Suggestions? > >Phil |
#8
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"Howdy" > wrote in message ... > Hey All! > > Kind of a long story here so I'll try to shorten it up as much as > possible... sorry if I miss a crucial detail... just ask if you need > more info... > > 1999 Chrysler Sebring Jx Convertible - 2.5L V6 with 102,000 miles. I > bought the car used at 65,000 miles for my teenaged daughter. > > When purchased the car got around 17 mpg. I had a tune-up and the fuel > injectors cleaned and mileage went up to 24 mpg. > > Mileage stayed stable for awhile then started dropping around 95,000 > miles. I had another tune-up with plug wires replaced (this past > January). Car ran fine but at only about 21 mpg. > > In April the engine started missing horribly and I took it to a new > shop (I had moved from Fort Lauderdale to Atlanta, car was trailered > up). New mechanics said the wrong plugs were put in and the plug wires > were oil soaked and needed replaced. I did new plugs, wires plus a new > distributor cap and rotor button (another $450). > > Car ran great for about a week and then started missing again, I took > it back to the shop and they found a defective plug, replaced it and > the car was running good again. > > Now, three weeks later the car is missing horribly, backfiring > especially at low rpm's. I took it back to the shop and they said the > plugs, wires etc. are fine but that the oil is not draining from the > heads back to the oil pan and the hydraulic lifters are not > functioning properly so the valves are not opening and closing when > they should and this is causing the engine to backfire and miss and > that I need to have the heads reworked. (I'm no genus but this sounds > like utter BS to me.) > > I believe the car has always had a barely perceptible miss... at idle > you can watch the rpm guage jump (and not just when the fan comes on). > Mechanics who've hooked the car up to a scope tell me I'm nuts. > > There is no check engine warning light. The one time it came on it > was reset when the mechanics in Atlanta replaced the plugs and wires. > It has not come on since. (I have run the diagnostic on the > instrument panel and the check engine light (all lights for that > matter) works great. > > This problem does not occur when the engine is cold. After the engine > warms up however its very noticible on acceleration and when the RPMs > is under 2000. At 50 mph, and 1800 rpms up a slight hill with no a/c > you'd think you had a transmission problem the way the car jerks and > lunges. Dropping the gear down or accelerating and the missing and > backfiring goes away... once the ride stabilizes out to crusing speed > (70 mph) you can feel the missing again but you can't detect (hear) > any backfiring. > > So, now I have a car who's engine misses so much its hardly driveable, > new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. > > Suggestions? > > Phil > Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the problem, it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem. Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer to learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which cylinder is misfiring. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech |
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[snip]
>Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the problem, >it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for >the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem. >Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in >second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and >let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer to >learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which >cylinder is misfiring. > >Glenn Beasley >Chrysler Tech > Glen, Thanks! That got me a check engine light... is there any way to do a manual PCM code check on a 1999 Sebring? Phil |
#10
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"Howdy" > wrote in message ... > [snip] > > >Well first of all you need to find out what cylinder is causing the problem, > >it sounds as if the adaptive numerator needs to be relearned in order for > >the engine controller to determine what cylinder is causing the problem. > >Take vehicle on a test drive and get it up to operating temperature, in > >second gear go about 40 mph and then let go of the accelerator pedal and > >let the vehicle coast down to about 25mph. This will cause the computer to > >learn the crankshaft values and be able to set a fault code for which > >cylinder is misfiring. > > > >Glenn Beasley > >Chrysler Tech > > > Glen, > > Thanks! That got me a check engine light... is there any way to do a > manual PCM code check on a 1999 Sebring? > > Phil I would have all codes read by a scan tool along with all freeze frame data., but take it to someone that is familiar with the vehicle |
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