world's heaviest flywheel?

Mine doesn't behave like that either. Of course Bill will come up with some
pithy remark why rather than admit he's wrong... :-)

"Dave Milne" > wrote in message
. ..
> ?? My TJ doesn't behave like that, not has any fuel injection car I have
> ever driven.
> In fact, the TJ is almost notorious for it's bouncy throttle...
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Yup, every car with electronic fuel injection and computer, since
>> the early eighties will not let us use engine braking, at least for the
>> first three or four seconds.
>
>

Jump in that old Ford, if your Brother lets you in it, and you'll
feel the way an engine's supposed to operate, giving you and engine
brake. That use to cause a rapping sound, remember? Back when Americans
were smart enough to operate a Real car.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Mine doesn't behave like that either. Of course Bill will come up with some
> pithy remark why rather than admit he's wrong... :-)

Your typical non constructive comment. How you every flew a
helicopter in Vietnam I'll never guess!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Bull.

Bill --

I suspect the engine control computer is the problem and, like you,
suspect that it is programmed as it is because of a nanny mentality,
either for milage or emissions or out of concern that nobody knows how
to upshift properly.

However, ... that leaves the question: how to fix it? I checked out
all the referenced sites, but could find no answers.

If it were a Ford or GM, probable because all the Hot Rodder that
prefer those makes we may buy a chip and programer for about four
hundred buck. But the DRB-III is the only way I know of that you will
let you set your idle speed, richness, shift points, rev limiter. I
already gave you the that link, and the fact that I block my step motor
off.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

rgb wrote:
>
> Bill --
>
> I suspect the engine control computer is the problem and, like you,
> suspect that it is programmed as it is because of a nanny mentality,
> either for milage or emissions or out of concern that nobody knows how
> to upshift properly.
>
> However, ... that leaves the question: how to fix it? I checked out
> all the referenced sites, but could find no answers.

There needs to be a gradual drop off in the fuel supply, even if the
accelerator is suddenly released. Otherwise, the engine will drop below a
stable RPM due to the sudden change in the amount of fuel being fed to it,
and will run rough (or maybe even die) between gear shifts.

You can see this in the fuel injected Datsun 280Zs from the 70s if you
remove the dash pot. The dash pot dampens the fuel drop off on the sudden
release of the accelerator. If the dash pot is not there, it's a bit of a
challenge to change gears while trying to keep the engine alive between
shifts.

As for why a large delay in your Jeep, maybe it's an American manufacturer
thing. My '90 Nissan 300ZX does what you describe when the engine's cold,
but not after it's warmed up. When the engine's warm, the throttle drops
off as normal. And it's always acted this way since it was new.

The Mopar MPI conversion kit doesn't do this either, but that has a customer
ROM from Hesco.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

L.W.(ßill) Hughes III ) wrote on Monday 07 March 2005
03:31 pm:

> Yup, every car with electronic fuel injection and computer, since
> the early eighties will not let us use engine braking, at least for the
> first three or four seconds. It's apart of the EPA's fight for better
> mileage, in that there are many people that constantly vary their
> accelerator position, screwing up there mileage. If you see a cop in
> your rearview mirror pull her down into second gear to quickly slow down
> rather than tip the cop we're running twenty over by touching our stop
> lights. Or put a plate under the step motor, pictured #2:
> http://members.cox.net/wilsond/tb/tb.html and use the hidden idle stop,
> as I do. Or reprogram it using a DRB-III:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WD1V
> Or Aftermarket: http://miller.spx.com/data/DC02-07A.pdf
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> rgb wrote:
>>
>> I just had the problem looked at by the tech at the dealer. He agreed
>> on the behavior, but said it was "normal" for the 6 speed models. His
>> guess was that it was a work-around for a problem with the
>> transmissions, a way to hold the rpm up on upshifts. A ****-poor
>> engineering choice in my opinion (and his). Instead of fixing the
>> problem, they made the throttle stick!!??
>>
>> Does anyone know of a solution?

He flew, you didn't, jealous? But more to the point, what's the point of
your gratuitous comment? (trolling for another round of tweaking Bill's
chain)

L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:

> Your typical non constructive comment. How you every flew a
> helicopter in Vietnam I'll never guess!
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>Bull.

Bill --

But the DRB-III is over $6,000 - way too much money for me. And
setting the idle speed, richness, shift points, or rev limiter would
not solve the problem.

What effect does blocking the step motor have? Better yet, how is it
done. I will try it myself.

Thanks,
Bob Brown

Bill --

I looked at the pic #2 you mentioned and then under the hood. I think
I see where the plate should go, but I saw no obvious way to remove the
step motor. Can you tell me what I need to do to get it off? How
thick a plate? What is the effect of the plate? Does it disengage the
step motor gear by moving it out? Or does it somehow cause the step
motor to work but with less rotation? Where is the hidden idle stop?

Is the idea to disable or limit in some way the action of the step
motor and compensate by adjusting the idle? A very cool idea if it
works.

If this will solve the problem I will do it at once.

By the way, I once had an old Ford with a nice glass-pac rap.

Thanks again,
Bob Brown

Michael --

Agreed, it may well be a recent American manufacturer thing. My 91 nsx
does not have the problem and neither does my 72 Pinto engine/Weber
carb in the Formula Ford.

Thanks for the Mopar reference. I will check it out. Do you have
personal knowledge of the Mopar MPI kit on an 05 wrangler 6-speed?

Thanks,
Bob Brfown