2003 Caravan power steering noise

Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to me that
it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise, it had zero
effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the lines causing similar
problems, and that extending the return line effects "shudder" at low speed,
so last night I get under there and notice they are vibrating pretty good.
Anyone have any similar experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going
on before I dump a bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was
just the hoses.

J

"Dll" > wrote in :

> Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to
> me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise,
> it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
> lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
> effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
> notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump a
> bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> hoses.
>
> J

I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend causes
the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the fluid
squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.

Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
before the recall notice came out. <sigh>

"Steph" > wrote in message
...
> "Dll" > wrote in :
>
> > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to
> > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise,
> > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
> > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
> > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
> > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump a
> > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> > hoses.
> >
> > J
>
> I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
> I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
> Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend causes
> the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the fluid
> squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
>
> Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
> before the recall notice came out. <sigh>
>
The recall(s) you are referring to was not to take care of a noise. It
involved the replacement of hoses because they could split and cause fluid
to run out possibly causing a fire

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

you know i find it funny that the dealers are required to have a power
steering pressure tester that narrows down to the exact cause of power
steering noise and issues trhat cause the noise and the dealer techs never
use it that i know of.
do you glen?
they just seem to guess as to what causes the steering noise is
my boss went on ebay and bought one new in the box from a dealer that went
out of bizz. and it still was in the sealed box as was all the special
fittings

Steph wrote:

> "Dll" > wrote in :
>
> > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to
> > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise,
> > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
> > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
> > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
> > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump a
> > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> > hoses.
> >
> > J
>
> I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
> I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
> Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend causes
> the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the fluid
> squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
>
> Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
> before the recall notice came out. <sigh>

"philthy" > wrote in message
...
> you know i find it funny that the dealers are required to have a power
> steering pressure tester that narrows down to the exact cause of power
> steering noise and issues trhat cause the noise and the dealer techs never
> use it that i know of.
> do you glen?
> they just seem to guess as to what causes the steering noise is
> my boss went on ebay and bought one new in the box from a dealer that went
> out of bizz. and it still was in the sealed box as was all the special
> fittings
>
> Steph wrote:
>
> > "Dll" > wrote in :
> >
> > > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to
> > > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise,
> > > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
> > > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
> > > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
> > > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> > > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump a
> > > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> > > hoses.
> > >
> > > J
> >
> > I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
> > I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
> > Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend
causes
> > the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the fluid
> > squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
> >
> > Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
> > before the recall notice came out. <sigh>
>

This is the time of the year when all the Power steering noises start to
come back. As I stated last year, It isn't a pressure problem that we are
seeing in the shop, Its a flow (restriction) or air in the system problem
and most are fixed performing TSB's, repairing the leak or flushing the
system. Check the Archives and see how complaints there have been on Power
steering noises in the fall spring or summer.I cant remember when the last
time I had to replace a power steering pump to fix a steering issue. I use
any special tool if I feel it is needed to diagnose a problem

just as a fyi. i work at a shop around the corner from a chr.dodge,jeep store
and we get alot of steering noise complaints after they have gone to the dealer
with no results except for power steering flush, the dealer did not work or
noise came back
we seen enough to go out and buy our tester and 8 out of ten times the tester
shows a pump issue.
again glenn have you used your shop tester at all???

maxpower wrote:

> "philthy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > you know i find it funny that the dealers are required to have a power
> > steering pressure tester that narrows down to the exact cause of power
> > steering noise and issues trhat cause the noise and the dealer techs never
> > use it that i know of.
> > do you glen?
> > they just seem to guess as to what causes the steering noise is
> > my boss went on ebay and bought one new in the box from a dealer that went
> > out of bizz. and it still was in the sealed box as was all the special
> > fittings
> >
> > Steph wrote:
> >
> > > "Dll" > wrote in :
> > >
> > > > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer to
> > > > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my surprise,
> > > > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
> > > > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
> > > > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
> > > > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> > > > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump a
> > > > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> > > > hoses.
> > > >
> > > > J
> > >
> > > I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
> > > I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
> > > Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend
> causes
> > > the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the fluid
> > > squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
> > >
> > > Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
> > > before the recall notice came out. <sigh>
> >
>
> This is the time of the year when all the Power steering noises start to
> come back. As I stated last year, It isn't a pressure problem that we are
> seeing in the shop, Its a flow (restriction) or air in the system problem
> and most are fixed performing TSB's, repairing the leak or flushing the
> system. Check the Archives and see how complaints there have been on Power
> steering noises in the fall spring or summer.I cant remember when the last
> time I had to replace a power steering pump to fix a steering issue. I use
> any special tool if I feel it is needed to diagnose a problem

Turns out my system just had air in it. Also seems the air is particularly
hard to purge on these cars, likely because the reservoir is away from the
pump, rather than the pump being submersed like most cars.

I had done the wheels off the ground and steer to both sides thing a few
times, but this had no effect, so I was certain the pump was making the
noise.

Ended up following a service bulletin where you buy this butt plug that
allows you to apply vacuum to the P/S for a few mins to get the air bubble
to expand and rise to the top. I didn't think it was going to do anything,
but $30 for a custom rubber cork with a tube through it somehow didn't seem
so bad, and it worked. No more noise. I had to repeat it 3-4 times over a
few days, though, to get all the air out. Crazy. The tranny fluid seems to
hold air and foam more than P/S fluid, as well. Wonder how many racks and
pumps have been replaced when it was just air.

D


"philthy" > wrote in message
...
> just as a fyi. i work at a shop around the corner from a chr.dodge,jeep
> store
> and we get alot of steering noise complaints after they have gone to the
> dealer
> with no results except for power steering flush, the dealer did not work
> or
> noise came back
> we seen enough to go out and buy our tester and 8 out of ten times the
> tester
> shows a pump issue.
> again glenn have you used your shop tester at all???
>
> maxpower wrote:
>
>> "philthy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > you know i find it funny that the dealers are required to have a power
>> > steering pressure tester that narrows down to the exact cause of power
>> > steering noise and issues trhat cause the noise and the dealer techs
>> > never
>> > use it that i know of.
>> > do you glen?
>> > they just seem to guess as to what causes the steering noise is
>> > my boss went on ebay and bought one new in the box from a dealer that
>> > went
>> > out of bizz. and it still was in the sealed box as was all the special
>> > fittings
>> >
>> > Steph wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Dll" > wrote in
>> > > :
>> > >
>> > > > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer
>> > > > to
>> > > > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my
>> > > > surprise,
>> > > > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about the
>> > > > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return line
>> > > > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there and
>> > > > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
>> > > > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I dump
>> > > > a
>> > > > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
>> > > > hoses.
>> > > >
>> > > > J
>> > >
>> > > I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
>> > > I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
>> > > Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend
>> causes
>> > > the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the
>> > > fluid
>> > > squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
>> > >
>> > > Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
>> > > before the recall notice came out. <sigh>
>> >
>>
>> This is the time of the year when all the Power steering noises start to
>> come back. As I stated last year, It isn't a pressure problem that we are
>> seeing in the shop, Its a flow (restriction) or air in the system
>> problem
>> and most are fixed performing TSB's, repairing the leak or flushing the
>> system. Check the Archives and see how complaints there have been on
>> Power
>> steering noises in the fall spring or summer.I cant remember when the
>> last
>> time I had to replace a power steering pump to fix a steering issue. I
>> use
>> any special tool if I feel it is needed to diagnose a problem
>

"Dll" > wrote in message
...
> Turns out my system just had air in it. Also seems the air is particularly
> hard to purge on these cars, likely because the reservoir is away from the
> pump, rather than the pump being submersed like most cars.
>
> I had done the wheels off the ground and steer to both sides thing a few
> times, but this had no effect, so I was certain the pump was making the
> noise.
>
> Ended up following a service bulletin where you buy this butt plug that
> allows you to apply vacuum to the P/S for a few mins to get the air bubble
> to expand and rise to the top. I didn't think it was going to do anything,
> but $30 for a custom rubber cork with a tube through it somehow didn't seem
> so bad, and it worked. No more noise. I had to repeat it 3-4 times over a
> few days, though, to get all the air out. Crazy. The tranny fluid seems to
> hold air and foam more than P/S fluid, as well. Wonder how many racks and
> pumps have been replaced when it was just air.
>


If it was caused by "just air" how does the air get into the system to begin
with ?

"Dll" > wrote in message
...
> Turns out my system just had air in it. Also seems the air is
particularly
> hard to purge on these cars, likely because the reservoir is away from the
> pump, rather than the pump being submersed like most cars.
The pump is submersed in fluid like other cars. The air normally gets in
thru the tie rod inner seals or the cooler hoses leaking
>
> I had done the wheels off the ground and steer to both sides thing a few
> times, but this had no effect, so I was certain the pump was making the
> noise.


>
> Ended up following a service bulletin where you buy this butt plug that
> allows you to apply vacuum to the P/S for a few mins to get the air bubble
> to expand and rise to the top. I didn't think it was going to do
anything,
> but $30 for a custom rubber cork with a tube through it somehow didn't
seem
> so bad, and it worked. No more noise. I had to repeat it 3-4 times over
a
> few days, though, to get all the air out. Crazy. The tranny fluid seems
to
> hold air and foam more than P/S fluid, as well. Wonder how many racks and
> pumps have been replaced when it was just air.

Normally the fluid level gets low and causes this problem, no leaks are
found because the inner tie rod seals leak the fluid and the fluid gets
trapped in the inner tie rod dust boot bellows

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech
>
> D
>
>
> "philthy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > just as a fyi. i work at a shop around the corner from a chr.dodge,jeep
> > store
> > and we get alot of steering noise complaints after they have gone to the
> > dealer
> > with no results except for power steering flush, the dealer did not work
> > or
> > noise came back
> > we seen enough to go out and buy our tester and 8 out of ten times the
> > tester
> > shows a pump issue.
> > again glenn have you used your shop tester at all???
> >
> > maxpower wrote:
> >
> >> "philthy" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > you know i find it funny that the dealers are required to have a
power
> >> > steering pressure tester that narrows down to the exact cause of
power
> >> > steering noise and issues trhat cause the noise and the dealer techs
> >> > never
> >> > use it that i know of.
> >> > do you glen?
> >> > they just seem to guess as to what causes the steering noise is
> >> > my boss went on ebay and bought one new in the box from a dealer that
> >> > went
> >> > out of bizz. and it still was in the sealed box as was all the
special
> >> > fittings
> >> >
> >> > Steph wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > "Dll" > wrote in
> >> > > :
> >> > >
> >> > > > Kind of a whining/groaning sound at all RPM's. Seemed no brainer
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > me that it was the pump, so I replaced that. However, to my
> >> > > > surprise,
> >> > > > it had zero effect on the problem. I've read some TSB's about
the
> >> > > > lines causing similar problems, and that extending the return
line
> >> > > > effects "shudder" at low speed, so last night I get under there
and
> >> > > > notice they are vibrating pretty good. Anyone have any similar
> >> > > > experience? I'd like to know exactly what's going on before I
dump
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > bunch of time into replacing the gear, when maybe it was just the
> >> > > > hoses.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > J
> >> > >
> >> > > I have a 2002 GC that HAD that problem.
> >> > > I believe for the 2002, there was recall C-20 to take care of it.
> >> > > Basically replace the hydraulilc lines. When they heat up the bend
> >> causes
> >> > > the hose to pinch - thus the noise you hear when it's cold is the
> >> > > fluid
> >> > > squeezing past the collapsed kink of the hose.
> >> > >
> >> > > Of course they replaced the entire rack/pin assembly [to no effect]
> >> > > before the recall notice came out. <sigh>
> >> >
> >>
> >> This is the time of the year when all the Power steering noises start
to
> >> come back. As I stated last year, It isn't a pressure problem that we
are
> >> seeing in the shop, Its a flow (restriction) or air in the system
> >> problem
> >> and most are fixed performing TSB's, repairing the leak or flushing the
> >> system. Check the Archives and see how complaints there have been on
> >> Power
> >> steering noises in the fall spring or summer.I cant remember when the
> >> last
> >> time I had to replace a power steering pump to fix a steering issue. I
> >> use
> >> any special tool if I feel it is needed to diagnose a problem
> >
>
>

"Mike"

> If it was caused by "just air" how does the air get into the system to
> begin with ?

There were no leaks or low fluid. The car was based in Chicago but
developed the problem soon after arriving in Denver area. So maybe
something with the altitude.

What I think is that if you have the slightest bit of air in there, it gets
churned into foam, perhaps therefore mixing in even more air during its
brief stay in the reservoir and gets worse thereafter. Like I said, it was
really hard to get all the air out of there, but now that I have, the
problem has been gone for over 10 days or so.

We'll see. I'd never heard of the vacuum thing until I read the service
bulletin, so I suspect Chrysler is pretty aware of the (or some) phenomena.

D