2004 Sebring Touring Oil Changes...

Car is close to 100 000 Km (60 000 miles) Engines is 2.7L driven in
Canada, about 70-30 hiway to city miles.

Should I switch to full or semi synthetic to help this car last to 200 000
Km (120 000 miles+). I am unable to change the oil myself so I take it to
a Wal-Mart lube around the corner from my work.

Oil is changed reguarlary every 5000 kms (300 miles) with Pennzoil 5W30 and
new filter but I have only owned the car since 60 000 kms.. It was a daily
rental before I purchased it.

A synthetic oil change is double the cost of a conventional change. I
drive about 40 000 km's a year. so that's 8 or 9 changes a year.

Any thoughts??

The Henchman wrote:
> Car is close to 100 000 Km (60 000 miles) Engines is 2.7L driven in
> Canada, about 70-30 hiway to city miles.
>
> Should I switch to full or semi synthetic to help this car last to 200 000
> Km (120 000 miles+). I am unable to change the oil myself so I take it to
> a Wal-Mart lube around the corner from my work.
>
> Oil is changed reguarlary every 5000 kms (300 miles) with Pennzoil 5W30 and
> new filter but I have only owned the car since 60 000 kms.. It was a daily
> rental before I purchased it.
>
> A synthetic oil change is double the cost of a conventional change. I
> drive about 40 000 km's a year. so that's 8 or 9 changes a year.
>
> Any thoughts??

With that low a mileage and the amount of hiway miles (good) and the
regular maintenance you have done so far, you probably are OK to switch
to synthetic without breaking lose a lot of sludge that this engine is
famous for (if oil changes had been neglected and/or it had had a lot of
short-trip city driving).

I would still make the change gradually - not as easy to do since you
are not doing the changes yourself. But maybe you could talk them into
putting in 1 qt. of synthetic with 4 qts. of conventional oil for the
first change (use new filter). Have another change done 1500 miles
later, but this time use 2 qts. synth., 3 qts. conventional (new filter
this time too). Then at 3000 miles, do 3/2 synth to convetional - new
filter. Then at 3000 mles, 4-to-1 and new filter. I would stay at 4
qts. synth to 1 qt. conventional forever after that.

Or stay with conventional oil and put 8 ozs. of Marvel Mystery Oil in
the crankcase with each change, and change the filter each time
(synthetic oil is not the panacea that every one thinks it is). This is
what I have done for my 2.7L that now has 189k miles on it and runs
great (bought it used with 58k miles on it). That would be simpler
since someone else is doing the changes. You can just add the MMO in
yourself after you get it back home from having the change done.

Also pay attention to the brand and model of oil filter they use. Some
brands and models are much better than others for very little extra cost.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"The Henchman" > wrote in message
m...
> Car is close to 100 000 Km (60 000 miles) Engines is 2.7L driven in
> Canada, about 70-30 hiway to city miles.
>
> Should I switch to full or semi synthetic to help this car last to 200 000
> Km (120 000 miles+). I am unable to change the oil myself so I take it
> to a Wal-Mart lube around the corner from my work.
>
> Oil is changed reguarlary every 5000 kms (300 miles) with Pennzoil 5W30
> and new filter but I have only owned the car since 60 000 kms.. It was a
> daily rental before I purchased it.
>
> A synthetic oil change is double the cost of a conventional change. I
> drive about 40 000 km's a year. so that's 8 or 9 changes a year.
>
> Any thoughts??
If you switch to a good synthetic (like Mobil 1), you can change your oil
every 5000 miles (8000 or 9000 km in round numbers), which evens out the
cost. The big thing with expensive synthetic is whether or not the engine
uses or loses oil between changes. If you have to add oil, then it doesn't
pay; if the engine is tight enough to not need any additional oil, then
synthetic is worth the cost (in both lowered wear and fuel savings).

If your engine is showing signs of wear (using up oil, etc.), then think
about adding molybdenum disulphide with every oil change...

This North American penchant for pouring oil into engines...

With motorway driving 5000 miles is nothing. What does the manufacturer say
about oil changes?

This is a modern car with, no doubt, an electronic service monitoring
system.

DAS

For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Ron Seiden" > wrote in message
news:9dOZi.3881$jH2.2523@trnddc01...
[...]

> If you switch to a good synthetic (like Mobil 1), you can change your oil
> every 5000 miles (8000 or 9000 km in round numbers), which evens out the
> cost. The big thing with expensive synthetic is whether or not the engine
> uses or loses oil between changes. If you have to add oil, then it doesn't
> pay; if the engine is tight enough to not need any additional oil, then
> synthetic is worth the cost (in both lowered wear and fuel savings).
>
> If your engine is showing signs of wear (using up oil, etc.), then think
> about adding molybdenum disulphide with every oil change...
>

Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
> This North American penchant for pouring oil into engines...
>
> With motorway driving 5000 miles is nothing. What does the manufacturer say
> about oil changes?
>
> This is a modern car with, no doubt, an electronic service monitoring
> system.
>
> DAS

Dori - With this particular engine (2.7L), following the manufacturer's
recommendations of 7500 mile oil change intervals (conventional oil)
will absolutely kill it. Sometimes the educated consumer is smarter
than the manufacturer.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Ron Seiden wrote:

> "The Henchman" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Car is close to 100 000 Km (60 000 miles) Engines is 2.7L driven in
>>Canada, about 70-30 hiway to city miles.
>>
>>Should I switch to full or semi synthetic to help this car last to 200 000
>>Km (120 000 miles+). I am unable to change the oil myself so I take it
>>to a Wal-Mart lube around the corner from my work.
>>
>>Oil is changed reguarlary every 5000 kms (300 miles) with Pennzoil 5W30
>>and new filter but I have only owned the car since 60 000 kms.. It was a
>>daily rental before I purchased it.
>>
>>A synthetic oil change is double the cost of a conventional change. I
>>drive about 40 000 km's a year. so that's 8 or 9 changes a year.
>>
>>Any thoughts??
>
> If you switch to a good synthetic (like Mobil 1), you can change your oil
> every 5000 miles (8000 or 9000 km in round numbers), which evens out the
> cost. The big thing with expensive synthetic is whether or not the engine
> uses or loses oil between changes. If you have to add oil, then it doesn't
> pay; if the engine is tight enough to not need any additional oil, then
> synthetic is worth the cost (in both lowered wear and fuel savings).
>
> If your engine is showing signs of wear (using up oil, etc.), then think
> about adding molybdenum disulphide with every oil change...

This particular engine typically develops bad exhaust valve stem seals
not too much beyond 100k miles - the OP can expect to have to add 1-1/2
to 2-1/2 qts. between changes (that's based on a 3500 mile change
interval - of course proportionaly more if interval extended due to
using synth or whatever) when this occurs. So, in line with your
comment, what would be the sense in changing to synth. now, only to have
an oil usage problem develop not too far down the road (synth. will not
prevent this from happening - in fact, in general irrespective of which
engine, many people report that synth only leaks worse than conventional
oil for otherwise small external or internal 'leaks').

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill

I have seen a lot of criticism of this engine here, but it still surprises
me that it needs so many oil changes and that Chrysler seem to have done
little about it.

Or are later versions better? Is there a later 2.7 l?

DAS

For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>
> Dori - With this particular engine (2.7L), following the manufacturer's
> recommendations of 7500 mile oil change intervals (conventional oil) will
> absolutely kill it. Sometimes the educated consumer is smarter than the
> manufacturer.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
> with the letter 'x')

They did do some modifications to the 2.7L thru the 2nd gen. LH
production years. You'd think they have the main problem solved to be
using it on the new platforms. Haven't heard of problems with those
like I was hearing on the LH cars. Or maybe we just haven't given it
long enough. 60 to 80k miles was enough to destroy many of the earlier
2nd gen. LH ones, so you'd think if there were going to be a bunch of
problems, we'd already be hearing about it.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')


Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

> Bill
>
> I have seen a lot of criticism of this engine here, but it still surprises
> me that it needs so many oil changes and that Chrysler seem to have done
> little about it.
>
> Or are later versions better? Is there a later 2.7 l?
>
> DAS
>
> For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
> ---
> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
> [...]
>
>>Dori - With this particular engine (2.7L), following the manufacturer's
>>recommendations of 7500 mile oil change intervals (conventional oil) will
>>absolutely kill it. Sometimes the educated consumer is smarter than the
>>manufacturer.
>>
>>Bill Putney
>>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
>>with the letter 'x')

My wife's 02 Sebring Conv. (2.7) has had Valv Maxlife in it for years
using the 3k oil change schedule (this car has the worst possible
life, i.e., very short trips without ever getting to full op.temp. on
most.) I change the oil myself, since I no longer trust the quick-lube
places or even the dealer to put in something other than bulk oil.
Also, it's usually had Wix filters in it. When changing the oil, I've
used really long cotton swabs to reach into the sump and I don't see
any sludge yet, but of course I can't get to some of those internal
passages, etc. where it might be forming.
Bill Putney: Do you know what the cut-off for 2nd generation 2.7's is,
or when certain improvements sludge were made?
BTW, Maxlife is usually at Wmart for about $2.20qt in 5qt jugs -
bargain for this oil.
TIA
Bill.

Bill wrote:

> My wife's 02 Sebring Conv. (2.7) has had Valv Maxlife in it for years
> using the 3k oil change schedule (this car has the worst possible
> life, i.e., very short trips without ever getting to full op.temp. on
> most.) I change the oil myself, since I no longer trust the quick-lube
> places or even the dealer to put in something other than bulk oil...

It may be a gamble to even get it changed at all. Places - dealers as
well as quick-change franshises charging for oil and filter change and
doing neither (especially if they think there's a good chance of not
getting caught) is at epidemic levels IMO.

> Also, it's usually had Wix filters in it...

That's a good thing.

> When changing the oil, I've
> used really long cotton swabs to reach into the sump and I don't see
> any sludge yet, but of course I can't get to some of those internal
> passages, etc. where it might be forming.
> Bill Putney: Do you know what the cut-off for 2nd generation 2.7's is,
> or when certain improvements sludge were made?
> BTW, Maxlife is usually at Wmart for about $2.20qt in 5qt jugs -
> bargain for this oil.
> TIA
> Bill.

I don't know the complete history off the top of my head. I know the
heat exchanger on the PCV hose was added starting with the 00 MY on the
LH cars (maybe across the board on all platforms.). I've seen other
things mentioned here and there about increased oil pump volume and
larger drainback passages. Don't know if all changes were done in one
fell swoop or if they came in stages. I also don't know if more
drastic, extensive and/or more effective changes were made in prep. for
the post-LH platforms, or if later year LH's (and Sebrings) had pretty
much everything that you would find in today's production engine.

I will try to remember to search places where I think there may have
been discussions and post back. I don't know that I've seen anything
real definitive as far as time line.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')