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2000 Windstar cold stall



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 1st 05, 12:27 AM
swilc0x
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Default 2000 Windstar cold stall

Hoping someone can tell me what's causing my Windstar to stall on cold
days. Here are the symptoms:

On cold days (say colder than 40 degrees Fahrenheit) the van will stall
when the motor is still cold. When I say stall I mean the engine tries
to die, sounds like the fanbelt is squelling whenever it's trying to
die. Most of the time, the engine doesn't actually die, it just
sputters and starts back up.

If I drive it for about 20 minutes or so it won't try to stall anymore.
If I drive it really, really easy when it's still cold, it won't stall.
Easy meaning not taking it over 2000 RPM. If it's warm outside (warmer
than 60 degrees Fahrenheit) it won't stall. If I let the van sit
outside when it's cold and warm up for 10 minutes or so it won't stall,
assuming it doesn't die while idling which it has done once before.

If I just hop in the van when and crank it up when it's been sitting
all night and it's cold outside and I drive normal, the van will stall.


Any suggestions as to what is causing this? This seemed to start when
we had our first cold snap of the winter.

Ads
  #2  
Old January 1st 05, 01:42 AM
Comboverfish
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Default

Upper and lower intake manifold seals leak on the 3.8 and cause a host
of problems. They are tempermental esp. in cold weather because they
shrink excessively and allow lots of unmetered air into the cylinders,
severly leaning out the engine at idle. You may experience drivability
concerns and/or a check engine light (codes P0171 and P0174, banks 1
and 2 lean).
Also, your mass airflow sensor could have dirt built up on its hotwire.
This is another common leaning condition; but is less temperature
sensitive than leaking intake seals.
The upper intake seals are fairly easy to change. There are "seal
washers" under the holddown bolts that should be replaced also to
improve clamping force. There should be a Ford TSB on this.
Toyota MDT in MO

  #3  
Old January 6th 05, 01:10 AM
swilc0x
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Default

OK, I took the van to the dealer today and they said the problem was
with the idle air control valve. Dealer said the intake seals are fine.


I thought if I had a bad IAC valve, I would experience idle problems?
Most of my problems are with stalls going down the road. Another thing,
why would my stalling problem not appear during warm weather if I had a
bad IAC?

As it stands now, I only have this stalling problem when it's really
cold outside. Past few days have been in the 60s and the van hasn't
given me any problems.

I think the dealer just doesn't want to warranty their work without
charging me something.


Comboverfish wrote:
> Upper and lower intake manifold seals leak on the 3.8 and cause a

host
> of problems. They are tempermental esp. in cold weather because they
> shrink excessively and allow lots of unmetered air into the

cylinders,
> severly leaning out the engine at idle. You may experience

drivability
> concerns and/or a check engine light (codes P0171 and P0174, banks 1
> and 2 lean).
> Also, your mass airflow sensor could have dirt built up on its

hotwire.
> This is another common leaning condition; but is less temperature
> sensitive than leaking intake seals.
> The upper intake seals are fairly easy to change. There are "seal
> washers" under the holddown bolts that should be replaced also to
> improve clamping force. There should be a Ford TSB on this.
> Toyota MDT in MO


  #4  
Old January 6th 05, 02:05 AM
Comboverfish
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Default

>I think the dealer just doesn't want to warranty their work without
>charging me something.


I wouldn't jump to that conclusion necessarily. If the tech looked at
the car while it was acting up he should have a good idea of the cause.
If he couldn't duplicate it then the cause is still a matter of
conjecture. An IAC valve can certainly cause a stalling complaint
anytime the engine is somewhere near idle speed. It is a simple
solenoid valve that opens and closes rapidly at the computer's command
to allow the right amount of air past the throttle body, and help
maintain idle speed. It can be used to raise cold engine idle as well.
Ford IACs can stick intermittantly and not respond to computer control
properly, causing a stall in a bad case.

I assume you have a basic 3/36 warrantee and you're out of it with it
being a 2000 model year van. I don't think Ford is going to cover
anything driveability related at this point anyway unless it falls
under an emissions component classification.

I don't know about the stalling only when moving. It doesn't ever
stall or stumble sitting still? And have you ever had a check engine
light since this problem developed?

Toyota MDT in MO

  #5  
Old January 6th 05, 02:31 AM
swilc0x
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Default

The warranty I was referring to was a repair the dealer performed. It
has a 12,000 or 1 year warranty. Get this. The repair was leaky intake
gaskets. My van has about 70,000 miles on it.

It has stalled once that I know of while at idle, real cold morning,
been sitting all night. Other than that, most all the stalls have
occured while driving when the engine is above 2000 RPM.

I had one check engine light come on. It came on or about the 8th
stall. That stall was somewhat 'violent' in that the motor died @
around 3000 RPM and then tried to restart. Kinda shook the car. The
code was a cam position sensor. Other than that, no check engine light
in weeks and only that once.

  #6  
Old January 6th 05, 02:43 AM
swilc0x
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Default

Here's what was on my repair ticket:
eec test
pinpoint test
replace upper intake gaskets
port gaskets
isolator bolts
valve cover

  #7  
Old January 6th 05, 04:39 AM
Comboverfish
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Ok, thats pretty specific info!

Now I'm looking at something that just shuts the engine down hard, not
a vacuum leak or IAC. Althought the IAC could have acted up that one
cold morning...

I'm going to guess that spark is dropping out. It would be easy to
point to the cam sensor since it set a code, but surprisingly, these
engines can keep running with a lost cam signal (lost while the engine
is already running). I've heard of a cam sensor false code related to
the 3.8 due to a nearby sensor causing something like an RF glitch or a
5 volt sensor supply power glitch but haven't seen it. (Internet
discussion) But I believe what I read was true. And the spinning cam
sensor drive assembly can tighten up or even break, causing noise or
complete cam sensor failure. So all this means is that the code could
be real or a ghost code. Fun......

When you say it died at 3k and 'tried to restart' I read that you lost
full power instantly and before the engine reached 0 rpms it chugged
back to life (as if you were driving along and you turned the key off
for a couple seconds then back on). If that's true it could be any
kind of spark loss or battery power loss to any ignition or fuel
injection component. I think your van would need to be road tested by
a mechanic until it happened. Then possibly road tested again with
test equipment monitoring suspect areas.

Sorry, I'm out of ideas, but if you explain your problem to a good shop
as thoroughly as you did here -- and let them have it 'til it acts up,
you will probably find the shortest path to a correct repair.
Good luck,

Toyota MDT in MO

 




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