2000 Condorde - Body (chassis) mounts

On Nov 21, 8:25*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> jaygreg wrote:
>
> Rob and aarcuda answered everything well, except, I think you have some
> confusion here that hasn't been addressed:
>
> > ...2) >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from
> > turning...<< The teacher (who, incidentally claims to have many years
> > practical experience and will be the one to remove the nuts to reduce
> > chance of breaking the bolts) described each bushing assembly as
> > having a replaceable bolt. He lead me to believe he's banking on the
> > nuts backing off without incident and the bolts slipping out from the
> > top (though he said there's no room to maneuver from the top if the
> > bolts break). He wouldn't be able to do this if those bolts are
> > welded, would he?
> > He said he can't drill nor torch so I've got to find a backup in the
> > event he breaks a bolt...
>
> I may be misunderstanding what you're saying here, but, based on where
> you said "He wouldn't be able to do this if those bolts are welded,
> would he?", it seems that you thought that when aarcuda said "The nut
> inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from turning..." that he
> was saying that the bolt is tacked to the nut to keep the bolt from
> turning. *He was saying that the nut is welded to the frame (to keep the
> nut from turning relative to the frame).
>
> Like I said - I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but I'm
> thinking you were confused on that by mis-reading aarcuda's statement
> about the nut being welded.
>
> --
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')


Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly, how does the
teacher expect to get it out without cutting an access hole? From his
list of parts I'll need to buy (I'll have to recheck with him Monday),
he included "bolts". Rob's photos doesn't display bolts. I assumed
that's because his replacement was clean; the nuts came off without
incident.

And back to the possibility of moving the car 10 miles or so in the
event one bolt breaks.... surely this wouldn't be recommended BUT -
given the circumstances - I've got to assess risk here. What's the
potential damage that can reasonably be expected if the car were
driven with one bolt broken? After learning what I have here and
elsewhere lately about this design, there are probably a few more cars
on the road with similar problems and the owners don't even realize
the severity yet. My guess is the most probably outcome if I'm forced
to drive 10 miles or so is ... zip; nothing. I may sense a shimmy in
the wheel a tad but probably little else. That's my guess using common
sense, but then .... my experience here is also "zip".

jaygreg wrote:

> Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
> the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...

I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything. Only
that the *nut* is welded to the frame.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Nov 21, 10:09*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> jaygreg wrote:
> > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
> > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
>
> I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything. *Only
> that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
>
> --
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')


>>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from turning...<<
I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom of
the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that will
turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get up
there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.

In article
>,
jaygreg > wrote:

> On Nov 21, 10:09*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> > jaygreg wrote:
> > > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
> > > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
> >
> > I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything. *Only
> > that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Putney
> > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> > address with the letter 'x')
>
>
> >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from turning...<<
> I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom of
> the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
> register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that will
> turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get up
> there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
> these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.

Now that you have a clear understanding of the situation, some of the
threads of the bolt stick up above the nut. These threads will corrode
and bind in the nut when he tries to remove the bolt. penetrating oil
will help but it is not a magic cure all. With patience and finesse, he
may get them out without incident.

As for a diagram or picture, imagine a sealed rectangular box, imagine
that inside that box is a nut glued/welded/attached to one face of that
box. Your job is to figure out how to apply over 100 ft.lb. of torque
to that nut repeatedly without it breaking loose and spinning until the
bolt is fully removed.

Your mechanic can start by drilling a 1/2 inch hole in the outboard face
of the frame rail adjacent to the nut, he can then access the nut and
bolt threads with a #2 or #3 welding tip and heat the nut and also burn
any corrosion off of the bolt threads. This should help considerably.
The hole can then be mig welded shut,there will be no structural
concerns as long as the weld is done properly (not too hot) as I believe
the unibody rails are HSLA type steel.

On Nov 21, 4:55*pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
> *jaygreg > wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 10:09*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> > > jaygreg wrote:
> > > > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
> > > > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
>
> > > I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything. *Only
> > > that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
>
> > > --
> > > Bill Putney
> > > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> > > address with the letter 'x')
>
> > >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from turning....<<
> > I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom of
> > the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
> > register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that will
> > turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get up
> > there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
> > these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.
>
> Now that you have a clear understanding of the situation, some of the
> threads of the bolt stick up above the nut. *These threads will corrode
> and bind in the nut when he tries to remove the bolt. *penetrating oil
> will help but it is not a magic cure all. *With patience and finesse, he
> may get them out without incident.
>
> As for a diagram or picture, imagine a sealed rectangular box, imagine
> that inside that box is a nut glued/welded/attached to one face of that
> box. *Your job is to figure out how to apply over 100 ft.lb. of torque
> to that nut repeatedly without it breaking loose and spinning until the
> bolt is fully removed.
>
> Your mechanic can start by drilling a 1/2 inch hole in the outboard face
> of the frame rail adjacent to the nut, he can then access the nut and
> bolt threads with a #2 or #3 welding tip and heat the nut and also burn
> any corrosion off of the bolt threads. *This should help considerably.
> The hole can then be mig welded shut,there will be no structural
> concerns as long as the weld is done properly (not too hot) as I believe
> the unibody rails are HSLA type steel.

Got it! The instructor/mechanic did mention drilling a hole but I
thought it's purpose was merely to sqirt penetrating oil. He has no
welding equipment... or if he does, he made it clear he wouldn't be
doing any welding. Thus my search for athe backup. Sounds like I'm
going to need his personal skill with the bolts... and a little bit of
luck.

On Nov 22, 12:29*am, jaygreg > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 4:55*pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
>
> > *jaygreg > wrote:
> > > On Nov 21, 10:09*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> > > > jaygreg wrote:
> > > > > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt. If
> > > > > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
>
> > > > I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything. *Only
> > > > that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Bill Putney
> > > > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> > > > address with the letter 'x')
>
> > > >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from turning...<<
> > > I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom of
> > > the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
> > > register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that will
> > > turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get up
> > > there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
> > > these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.
>
> > Now that you have a clear understanding of the situation, some of the
> > threads of the bolt stick up above the nut. *These threads will corrode
> > and bind in the nut when he tries to remove the bolt. *penetrating oil
> > will help but it is not a magic cure all. *With patience and finesse, he
> > may get them out without incident.
>
> > As for a diagram or picture, imagine a sealed rectangular box, imagine
> > that inside that box is a nut glued/welded/attached to one face of that
> > box. *Your job is to figure out how to apply over 100 ft.lb. of torque
> > to that nut repeatedly without it breaking loose and spinning until the
> > bolt is fully removed.
>
> > Your mechanic can start by drilling a 1/2 inch hole in the outboard face
> > of the frame rail adjacent to the nut, he can then access the nut and
> > bolt threads with a #2 or #3 welding tip and heat the nut and also burn
> > any corrosion off of the bolt threads. *This should help considerably..
> > The hole can then be mig welded shut,there will be no structural
> > concerns as long as the weld is done properly (not too hot) as I believe
> > the unibody rails are HSLA type steel.
>
> Got it! The instructor/mechanic did mention drilling a hole but I
> thought it's purpose was merely to sqirt penetrating oil. He has no
> welding equipment... or if he does, he made it clear he wouldn't be
> doing any welding. Thus my search for athe backup. Sounds like I'm
> going to need his personal skill with the bolts... and a little bit of
> luck.

The instructor/mechanic was able to crack 3 of the 4 nuts.
Surprisingly, the one with the best bushing (best shape) is the one
that's giving the most resistance. He had the students squirt a good
amount of penetrating oil onto the bolt from the top and told me to
bring it back next week. He's optimistic it'll free up and I'll be
able to replace all four bushings/mounts.

That good news lead me to decide to keep the car and sink more into
the suspension system... which raised more - but far less serious -
issues. I've spelled them out in a separate posting. I could use some
more advice please. Thanks for helping with the mounts.
"Best Struts/shocks - 2000 Concorde 110K Miles"

In article
>,
jaygreg > wrote:

> On Nov 22, 12:29*am, jaygreg > wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 4:55*pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article
> > > >,
> >
> > > *jaygreg > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 21, 10:09*am, Bill Putney > wrote:
> > > > > jaygreg wrote:
> > > > > > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that bolt.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
> >
> > > > > I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to anything.
> > > > > *Only
> > > > > that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Bill Putney
> > > > > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> > > > > address with the letter 'x')
> >
> > > > >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from
> > > > >>turning...<<
> > > > I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom of
> > > > the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
> > > > register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that will
> > > > turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get up
> > > > there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
> > > > these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.
> >
> > > Now that you have a clear understanding of the situation, some of the
> > > threads of the bolt stick up above the nut. *These threads will corrode
> > > and bind in the nut when he tries to remove the bolt. *penetrating oil
> > > will help but it is not a magic cure all. *With patience and finesse, he
> > > may get them out without incident.
> >
> > > As for a diagram or picture, imagine a sealed rectangular box, imagine
> > > that inside that box is a nut glued/welded/attached to one face of that
> > > box. *Your job is to figure out how to apply over 100 ft.lb. of torque
> > > to that nut repeatedly without it breaking loose and spinning until the
> > > bolt is fully removed.
> >
> > > Your mechanic can start by drilling a 1/2 inch hole in the outboard face
> > > of the frame rail adjacent to the nut, he can then access the nut and
> > > bolt threads with a #2 or #3 welding tip and heat the nut and also burn
> > > any corrosion off of the bolt threads. *This should help considerably.
> > > The hole can then be mig welded shut,there will be no structural
> > > concerns as long as the weld is done properly (not too hot) as I believe
> > > the unibody rails are HSLA type steel.
> >
> > Got it! The instructor/mechanic did mention drilling a hole but I
> > thought it's purpose was merely to sqirt penetrating oil. He has no
> > welding equipment... or if he does, he made it clear he wouldn't be
> > doing any welding. Thus my search for athe backup. Sounds like I'm
> > going to need his personal skill with the bolts... and a little bit of
> > luck.
>
> The instructor/mechanic was able to crack 3 of the 4 nuts.
> Surprisingly, the one with the best bushing (best shape) is the one
> that's giving the most resistance. He had the students squirt a good
> amount of penetrating oil onto the bolt from the top and told me to
> bring it back next week. He's optimistic it'll free up and I'll be
> able to replace all four bushings/mounts.

Hopefully, you all headed to the Casino... ;-)

> That good news lead me to decide to keep the car and sink more into
> the suspension system... which raised more - but far less serious -
> issues. I've spelled them out in a separate posting. I could use some
> more advice please. Thanks for helping with the mounts.
> "Best Struts/shocks - 2000 Concorde 110K Miles"

Know what you mean... I love our 98 Intrepid, thing is, stuff is always
failing like power window motors/switches, AC compressor/evaporator,
steering rack (horrible clanking on bumps) HVAC controls. But it's
fast, roomy, handles like a go-cart, roomy, great drivers seat, smooth,
roomy. Being a mechanic, the repairs don't hurt financially as much as
they would a layman.

it must be roomy. you put that in 2 times.....lol



"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> jaygreg > wrote:
>
>> On Nov 22, 12:29 am, jaygreg > wrote:
>> > On Nov 21, 4:55 pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > In article
>> > > >,
>> >
>> > > jaygreg > wrote:
>> > > > On Nov 21, 10:09 am, Bill Putney > wrote:
>> > > > > jaygreg wrote:
>> > > > > > Sorry for being thick but I'm still a tad confused about that
>> > > > > > bolt.
>> > > > > > If
>> > > > > > the bolt was spot welded to the frame during assembly,...
>> >
>> > > > > I haven't seen anything about the *bolt* being welded to
>> > > > > anything.
>> > > > > Only
>> > > > > that the *nut* is welded to the frame.
>> >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Bill Putney
>> > > > > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in
>> > > > > my
>> > > > > address with the letter 'x')
>> >
>> > > > >>The nut inside the frame rail is spot welded to keep it from
>> > > > >>turning...<<
>> > > > I haven't seen a picture of "the bolt", only the nut on the bottom
>> > > > of
>> > > > the frame on my car. The phrase "nut INSIDE the frame rail" didn't
>> > > > register as it should have. I understand now; it's the BOLT that
>> > > > will
>> > > > turn... not the nut. Is that correct? Can penetrating oil even get
>> > > > up
>> > > > there and around that nut? Anyone got a diagram or picture of what
>> > > > these parts in place? I can't find anything in my manual.
>> >
>> > > Now that you have a clear understanding of the situation, some of the
>> > > threads of the bolt stick up above the nut. These threads will
>> > > corrode
>> > > and bind in the nut when he tries to remove the bolt. penetrating oil
>> > > will help but it is not a magic cure all. With patience and finesse,
>> > > he
>> > > may get them out without incident.
>> >
>> > > As for a diagram or picture, imagine a sealed rectangular box,
>> > > imagine
>> > > that inside that box is a nut glued/welded/attached to one face of
>> > > that
>> > > box. Your job is to figure out how to apply over 100 ft.lb. of torque
>> > > to that nut repeatedly without it breaking loose and spinning until
>> > > the
>> > > bolt is fully removed.
>> >
>> > > Your mechanic can start by drilling a 1/2 inch hole in the outboard
>> > > face
>> > > of the frame rail adjacent to the nut, he can then access the nut and
>> > > bolt threads with a #2 or #3 welding tip and heat the nut and also
>> > > burn
>> > > any corrosion off of the bolt threads. This should help considerably.
>> > > The hole can then be mig welded shut,there will be no structural
>> > > concerns as long as the weld is done properly (not too hot) as I
>> > > believe
>> > > the unibody rails are HSLA type steel.
>> >
>> > Got it! The instructor/mechanic did mention drilling a hole but I
>> > thought it's purpose was merely to sqirt penetrating oil. He has no
>> > welding equipment... or if he does, he made it clear he wouldn't be
>> > doing any welding. Thus my search for athe backup. Sounds like I'm
>> > going to need his personal skill with the bolts... and a little bit of
>> > luck.
>>
>> The instructor/mechanic was able to crack 3 of the 4 nuts.
>> Surprisingly, the one with the best bushing (best shape) is the one
>> that's giving the most resistance. He had the students squirt a good
>> amount of penetrating oil onto the bolt from the top and told me to
>> bring it back next week. He's optimistic it'll free up and I'll be
>> able to replace all four bushings/mounts.
>
> Hopefully, you all headed to the Casino... ;-)
>
>> That good news lead me to decide to keep the car and sink more into
>> the suspension system... which raised more - but far less serious -
>> issues. I've spelled them out in a separate posting. I could use some
>> more advice please. Thanks for helping with the mounts.
>> "Best Struts/shocks - 2000 Concorde 110K Miles"
>
> Know what you mean... I love our 98 Intrepid, thing is, stuff is always
> failing like power window motors/switches, AC compressor/evaporator,
> steering rack (horrible clanking on bumps) HVAC controls. But it's
> fast, roomy, handles like a go-cart, roomy, great drivers seat, smooth,
> roomy. Being a mechanic, the repairs don't hurt financially as much as
> they would a layman.

In article m>,
"Rob" > wrote:

> it must be roomy. you put that in 2 times.....lol

Reminds me of a Checker.

Did I mention that it's roomy?

as yes....working on a checker was fun ......NOT!


"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article m>,
> "Rob" > wrote:
>
>> it must be roomy. you put that in 2 times.....lol
>
> Reminds me of a Checker.
>
> Did I mention that it's roomy?