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#11
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new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam > wrote in
: > On 01/01/2010 07:33 AM, Tegger wrote: >> >> Having said that, I am of the opinion that you can never change your >> oil too often. > > with respect, that opinion is underinformed. from > http://www.swri.org/3pubs/IRD1999/03912699.htm This is an extremely interesting document, so thanks for the link. However, it dates from 1999. The last paragraph is significant, in that the authors note their findings have not yet been fleshed-out or verified by additional testing, and are based on limited data. Quite a lot may have happened in the succeeding ten years since that doc was written, but there's nothing new on the SwRI site. > > we read: "Testing with partially stressed oil, which contained some > wear debris, produced less wear than testing with clean oil." And this: "...many oil chemistries require time and temperature to enhance their effectiveness". I'm really curious what real-world lessons those statements and test results have for us car owners. They have a contact page, I see. Next week I'll submit a few questions to them in the hopes of getting an answer. Stay tuned... -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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#12
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new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 08:37 AM, Tegger wrote:
> jim > wrote in > : > >> On 01/01/2010 07:33 AM, Tegger wrote: > >>> >>> Having said that, I am of the opinion that you can never change your >>> oil too often. >> >> with respect, that opinion is underinformed. from >> http://www.swri.org/3pubs/IRD1999/03912699.htm > > > > This is an extremely interesting document, so thanks for the link. However, > it dates from 1999. > > The last paragraph is significant, in that the authors note their findings > have not yet been fleshed-out or verified by additional testing, and are > based on limited data. > > Quite a lot may have happened in the succeeding ten years since that doc > was written, but there's nothing new on the SwRI site. 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this: solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic remover of friction. > > >> >> we read: "Testing with partially stressed oil, which contained some >> wear debris, produced less wear than testing with clean oil." > > > And this: "...many oil chemistries require time and temperature to enhance > their effectiveness". that means you leave to oil /in/ for it to reach maximum effectiveness! to be clear though - i would not recommend it for cheap oil - that stuff breaks down, loses viscosity and sludges up your engine. but i wouldn't use cheap oil - period. breakdown, poor additive packages, lousy seal conditioning - just stay away. > > I'm really curious what real-world lessons those statements and test > results have for us car owners. They have a contact page, I see. Next week > I'll submit a few questions to them in the hopes of getting an answer. > > Stay tuned... that would be great - thank you! |
#13
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new Honda CR-V break in
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:05:17 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> wrote: >In article >, > "Guy" > wrote: > >> Of course I'll read / re-read parts of the manual. I >> remember the sales person mentioning something about a reminder >> light?? > >wow. > >Spend $25,000 and you don't read the manual first thing, and you don't >pay attention when the guy shows you details? > >wow. I guess you haven't bought a new vehicle lately. If you did, you might have more important things on your mind at the time of purchase then the maintenance minder. Besides it's in the manual to read, right? Then no big deal as I see it. > >Yes, it's called Maintenance Minder. It will show a letter/number >combination when maintenance is due, and you look in the owner's manual >(yes, there's that nasty word again) to find out what services are >associated with that combination. > >What you DON'T do is blindly walk into a dealer and tell them "I have B3 >due" and let the dealer define what should be done. That's just license >to steal. Do what the owner's manual says. I will. > >And ignore the maintenance minder at your own risk, frankly--be that >mechanical risk to the car, or financial risk to your wallet. I do on my Accord and no problem. I do oil changes religiously at 3500 miles despite what the maintenance light says on my accord. So far it's runs well. Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and still no problems. I don't recommend abusing them but I don't think you need to follow the manual to the T either. I babied a Chevy I bought new once and it was a lemon from day one. I think the manual is a great guide but not a bible as some people make it out to be here. I think judgement is always a good thing. I was hoping people here had some but apparently not. I guess they just follow the manual blindly without judgement. Engineers are good but they aren't gods. |
#14
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new Honda CR-V break in
On 2010-01-01, Elmo P. Shagnasty > wrote:
> In article >, > Tegger > wrote: > >> It has not been established with 100% certainty that the factory fill is >> indeed ordinary off-the-shelf motor oil. It might be slightly different >> from off-the-shelf, but nobody really knows. For that reason I would leave >> the factory fill in until the Minder says to replace it. After that, change >> it /more/ often than required if you like. And always use an OEM filter. > > And for God's sake, people, don't think you know what you're doing--or > that your father knew what he was doing--and continue to use the same > crush washer on the drain plug. Use a new one every time. > > Even better if you follow the service manual and tighten the drain plug > with a torque wrench to the specified torque. I'm happy to know that my > DEALERSHIP mechanic, a true professional technician, does that every > time. (Yeah, that's right--I request this guy for everything, even oil > changes.) > > Going back to what jim and Tegger said, Honda says to use a new crush > washer for a reason. Is that five cents REALLY going to break you? If > so, you need to reconsider your car purchase. Yup. It's the main reason that I get my oil changes done at the local Delta Sonic car wash chain (they added oil-change and other maintenance services at several locations). MANY chains will do things like ignoring the recommended oil, use inferior filters, and never change the crush washer. This place does better service for oil changes than my closest dealership, so I stick with them. The price is the same, but the service is better. It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... -- Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733 joe at hits - buffalo dot com "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around ****ed off all the time..." - Danny, American History X |
#15
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new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 12:25 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:05:17 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > > wrote: > >> In >, >> > wrote: >> >>> Of course I'll read / re-read parts of the manual. I >>> remember the sales person mentioning something about a reminder >>> light?? >> >> wow. >> >> Spend $25,000 and you don't read the manual first thing, and you don't >> pay attention when the guy shows you details? >> >> wow. > > I guess you haven't bought a new vehicle lately. If you did, you > might have more important things on your mind at the time of purchase > then the maintenance minder. Besides it's in the manual to read, > right? Then no big deal as I see it. > >> >> Yes, it's called Maintenance Minder. It will show a letter/number >> combination when maintenance is due, and you look in the owner's manual >> (yes, there's that nasty word again) to find out what services are >> associated with that combination. >> >> What you DON'T do is blindly walk into a dealer and tell them "I have B3 >> due" and let the dealer define what should be done. That's just license >> to steal. Do what the owner's manual says. > > I will. >> >> And ignore the maintenance minder at your own risk, frankly--be that >> mechanical risk to the car, or financial risk to your wallet. > > I do on my Accord and no problem. I do oil changes religiously at > 3500 miles despite what the maintenance light says on my accord. So > far it's runs well. Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and > still no problems. I don't recommend abusing them but I don't think > you need to follow the manual to the T either. I babied a Chevy I > bought new once and it was a lemon from day one. I think the manual > is a great guide but not a bible as some people make it out to be > here. I think judgement is always a good thing. so, you're going to do analysis and get some numbers on which to base your judgment? > I was hoping > people here had some but apparently not. some people here /do/ have numbers. and experience. but you don't seem to think that matters. > I guess they just follow > the manual blindly without judgement. Engineers are good but they > aren't gods. as opposed to a guy with no numbers and no experience? that's retarded. bottom line dude - it's your car - you do what you want. but don't ask advice if you don't want to hear it. and you have no business getting offended if people have a negative reaction to you dismissing their correct advice as of no consequence. |
#16
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new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
> On 2010-01-01, Elmo P. > wrote: >> In >, >> > wrote: >> >>> It has not been established with 100% certainty that the factory fill is >>> indeed ordinary off-the-shelf motor oil. It might be slightly different >>> from off-the-shelf, but nobody really knows. For that reason I would leave >>> the factory fill in until the Minder says to replace it. After that, change >>> it /more/ often than required if you like. And always use an OEM filter. >> >> And for God's sake, people, don't think you know what you're doing--or >> that your father knew what he was doing--and continue to use the same >> crush washer on the drain plug. Use a new one every time. >> >> Even better if you follow the service manual and tighten the drain plug >> with a torque wrench to the specified torque. I'm happy to know that my >> DEALERSHIP mechanic, a true professional technician, does that every >> time. (Yeah, that's right--I request this guy for everything, even oil >> changes.) >> >> Going back to what jim and Tegger said, Honda says to use a new crush >> washer for a reason. Is that five cents REALLY going to break you? If >> so, you need to reconsider your car purchase. > > Yup. It's the main reason that I get my oil changes done at the local > Delta Sonic car wash chain (they added oil-change and other > maintenance services at several locations). MANY chains will do > things like ignoring the recommended oil, use inferior filters, and > never change the crush washer. This place does better service for oil > changes than my closest dealership, so I stick with them. The price > is the same, but the service is better. > > It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work > before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... > while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're not infallible. last time i paid someone to change my oil, it was san francisco honda - they had a special offer and i was in a hurry. they munged it pretty bad - they forgot to check the old oil filter seal wasn't still stuck to the block, which of course it was. when the new filter went on, that was /two/ seals in place, and naturally, one burst as soon as oil pressure built. oil sprayed all over the engine compartment, contaminated all my belts, got onto the radiator so it clogged with dust, and got all over the exhaust ready to leave a smoke trail for the next couple of miles. complete fiasco. so, if you're not doing this stuff yourself, take the elmo approach - find someone competent, experienced, and who knows their business. then stick with them. |
#17
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new Honda CR-V break in
jim beam > wrote in
t: > On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >> >> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >> > > while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're > not infallible. Ain't that the truth. My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by hanging from it, as monkeys do. I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The plug is not stripped. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#18
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new Honda CR-V break in
Tegger wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in > t: > >> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: > >>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>> >> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >> not infallible. > > > > Ain't that the truth. > > My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they > managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening the > plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by hanging from > it, as monkeys do. > > I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The plug > is not stripped. > > The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) -- JRE |
#19
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new Honda CR-V break in
On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
> Tegger wrote: >> jim beam > wrote in >> t: >>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >> >>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>> >>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>> not infallible. >> >> >> >> Ain't that the truth. >> >> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >> >> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >> plug is not stripped. >> >> > > The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, > without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord > stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very > unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. > > (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old > one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) > [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. |
#20
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new Honda CR-V break in
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam > wrote:
>On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote: >> Tegger wrote: >>> jim beam > wrote in >>> t: >>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote: >>> >>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work >>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners... >>>>> >>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're >>>> not infallible. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ain't that the truth. >>> >>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they >>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening >>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by >>> hanging from it, as monkeys do. >>> >>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The >>> plug is not stripped. >>> >>> >> >> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time, >> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord >> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very >> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose. >> >> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old >> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.) >> > >[much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory >oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft >aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a >thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk. Thanks Jim for your honesty <smile>. At least we can agree here. |
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