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#11
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Bill Putney wrote: > > >>>ask him to be more specific about what's gone bad in the alternator. >>>I'm betting he gave the alternator a spin when he removed the belt to >>>replace the water pump, and felt a rough bearing. > > >>Smitty posted a little earlier that both old and new alternators load >>tested at 11V - so it sounds like something else is going on external to >>the alternator. > > > 1) The load test results say nothing about the condition of the bearings. > 2) It's entirely possible the load test was not done correctly. But...if the load test is correct, then there's no reason to assume it's the bearings. But we're both speculating about something we can't prove. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x') |
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#12
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
> >>Smitty posted a little earlier that both old and new alternators load > >>tested at 11V - so it sounds like something else is going on external to > >>the alternator. > > The load test results say nothing about the condition of the bearings. > But...if the load test is correct, then there's no reason to assume it's > the bearings. Sure there is: The tech said the alternator is going bad. |
#13
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Thanks for all your replies. The tech said nothing about the bearings. I
watched him do the load test. Both the new one and the old one had the same output of 11V. I'm thinking that this unit has a voltage regulator that is separate from the alternator itself and there is some thing inside the alternator that keeps it from going too high with out the external regulator. On the vehicle the output tested low also, although I did not see him test it. I left the shop (not a Chrysler shop) with these words. If you think the new one will work put it on. He said he would and that he would check it after it was installed. If it did not work he said that he would put the old one back on. My wife picked up the car with a new alternator. I have not had a chance to check it myself for output but I will this weekend. The whole thing is still a little of a mystery but thanks to everyone who replied. My wife just drove in with the car while I was typing this. I just checked it out with the new alternator installed. Engine off- the battery measures 12.4V Running it checks 13.9V so I guess all is well. I may never know if it really needed a new alternator but I'll have to take their word for it. They have always done the right thing in the past so I guess It's a done deal. Thanks again, Smitty "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message n.umich.edu... > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bill Putney wrote: > >> >>Smitty posted a little earlier that both old and new alternators load >> >>tested at 11V - so it sounds like something else is going on external >> >>to >> >>the alternator. > >> > The load test results say nothing about the condition of the bearings. > >> But...if the load test is correct, then there's no reason to assume it's >> the bearings. > > Sure there is: The tech said the alternator is going bad. |
#14
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bill Putney wrote: > > >>>>Smitty posted a little earlier that both old and new alternators load >>>>tested at 11V - so it sounds like something else is going on external to >>>>the alternator. > > >>>The load test results say nothing about the condition of the bearings. > > >>But...if the load test is correct, then there's no reason to assume it's >>the bearings. > > > Sure there is: The tech said the alternator is going bad. No - the OP said: "The shop said that I also had a bad alternator" (check the original post) as in "already bad". That doesn't imply bad bearings any more than bad electrical output. Not quite the same as the shop saying it was "going bad". Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x') |
#15
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Daniel J. Stern wrote: > On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Smitty wrote: > > > I took my 96 grand Cherokee in for a water pump replacement. The shop > > said that I also had a bad alternator. It worked fine in our -20 temps > > here in MN and the warning light has never come on. Do you think it > > could be bad? > > Let me share a story which will help illuminate the matter: > > At one time, I drove a very used 1991 ex-police Chev Caprice. One very > cold winter morning, I noticed a new noise from under the hood. Faint, but > present. Sort of an intermittent hissing/clicking sound coming from the > front. I carefully homed in on the alternator as the source of the noise > and made a mental note to replace it, for obviously one or both of its > bearings had begun to fail. > > But life being what it is, I didn't get around to it. Working on cars is > very little fun in the winter, and the alternator was continuing to > charge. I fed a few drops of oil into the front bearing via the shaft and > kept on driving, periodically reminding myself that I ought to look at > changing the alternator. Eventually I pretty much forgot about it. > > About 2 months later, I was on the highway doing about 65mph when a sudden > loud noise began to emanate from up front. It sounded like the moan of a > dead power steering pump, but it obviously wasn't, for I still had > steering boost. The noise rapidly grew louder and evolved into a > hair-raising grinding noise. The voltmeter dropped, the "AMP" light came > on, and the smell of very hot metal filled the car. The alternator's front > bearing had locked up solid, and the entire bearing was now spinning in > its interference fit, meant to keep the bearing's outer ring stationary in > the alternator's front housing. > > It was still about 3 miles to the next exit. I decided to go for broke, > and kept on driving. The grinding sound got ever louder, the stink of > broiling metal grew heavier and hotter. I pulled off the highway at the > first opportunity, and found...nothing. No service station, no phone > booth, just an intersection. > > Back on the highway, another mile down the road, I pulled off at the next > exit, into a gas station's parking area and killed the engine. I yanked > the hood release, lifted the hood, and a thick column of smoke poured up > from the *extremely* hot alternator. The once-greasy painted brackets were > now bare steel, dark pink in color. I ran into the convenience store, > bought a bottle of water, sprinted back outside and carefully poured it > over the alternator. The water instantly and loudly flashed into steam. I > bought another bottle of water, and another. By the time I had poured the > third litre of water over the alternator, it was merely fizzing rather > than flashing the water directly into steam. > > There was a parts store with a service department one block down the road, > so I got back in the car and started the engine. The water treatment had > averted fire danger due to extreme heat, but in the time it had taken me > to buy the first bottle of water, the alternator had welded itself solid. > The 3-month-old serpentine belt skidded over the locked-up alternator > pulley and cooked itself to death in a big cloud of noxious smoke > during the one-block drive to the service center. > > Three hours and $250 later, the car had a replacement alternator and a new > belt, both of unknown quality. > > If this is your idea of a fun diversion during an important trip on an > unpredictable day, by all means ignore your mechanic. > > If it isn't, ask him to be more specific about what's gone bad in the > alternator. I'm betting he gave the alternator a spin when he removed the > belt to replace the water pump, and felt a rough bearing. > > DS I'm curious Dan. Since the alternator was cooked, was there any core trade-in value on it towards the new one? -Kirk Matheson |
#16
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Well.... The regulator is in the computer, not the alternator shell but
still...... I really have a hard time buying a 'dead' alternator suddenly when you get a belt changed, especially after all the recent cold weather and you having no issues..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Smitty wrote: > > Thanks for all your replies. The tech said nothing about the bearings. I > watched him do the load test. Both the new one and the old one had the same > output of 11V. I'm thinking that this unit has a voltage regulator that is > separate from the alternator itself and there is some thing inside the > alternator that keeps it from going too high with out the external > regulator. On the vehicle the output tested low also, although I did not > see him test it. I left the shop (not a Chrysler shop) with these words. If > you think the new one will work put it on. He said he would and that he > would check it after it was installed. If it did not work he said that he > would put the old one back on. My wife picked up the car with a new > alternator. I have not had a chance to check it myself for output but I will > this weekend. The whole thing is still a little of a mystery but thanks to > everyone who replied. > > My wife just drove in with the car while I was typing this. I just checked > it out with the new alternator installed. Engine off- the battery measures > 12.4V Running it checks 13.9V so I guess all is well. I may never know if > it really needed a new alternator but I'll have to take their word for it. > They have always done the right thing in the past so I guess It's a done > deal. > > Thanks again, > Smitty > > "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message > n.umich.edu... > > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bill Putney wrote: > > > >> >>Smitty posted a little earlier that both old and new alternators load > >> >>tested at 11V - so it sounds like something else is going on external > >> >>to > >> >>the alternator. > > > >> > The load test results say nothing about the condition of the bearings. > > > >> But...if the load test is correct, then there's no reason to assume it's > >> the bearings. > > > > Sure there is: The tech said the alternator is going bad. |
#17
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they might have found with the belt off the alt. pulley is noisey like it has a
bad bearing TNKEV wrote: > "THOR" > wrote in message > ... > > If your battery has not gone dead I would not replace it. > > > > "Smitty" > wrote in message > > ... > > : I took my 96 grand Cherokee in for a water pump replacement. The shop > > : said that I also had a bad alternator. It worked fine in our -20 temps > > : here in MN and the warning light has never come on. Do you think it > > : could be bad? > > : Thanks > > : Smitty > > > > > I would ask them to show you the test of your alternator in other words make > them load test it in front of you if won't show you go some where else. |
#18
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#19
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"Daniel J. Stern" > writes:
> > > I'm curious Dan. Since the alternator was cooked, was there any core > > trade-in value on it towards the new one? > > That's the funny part -- there was not a SINGLE usable piece on that > alternator. The rotor, stator and all other internals were thoroughly > barbecued and the housings had sustained severe heat damage (rear) and the > spun bearing (front). Nevertheless, Canadian Tire did deduct the core > value from the final bill. A very expensive doorstop for a remanufacturing > plant somewhere. I can't remember the last time I had a core inspected -- it seems like the rebuilders have decided it isn't worth trying to get retailers' counter people to fight with customers over the value, and just accept that a certain percentage of their cores will be worthless. I've got a steering box on the way from Firm Feel (it wasn't the pump... wish I'd seen Steve's email about testing it before I had the replacement on special order), and they've promised me the core value on my old box sight unseen. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer |
#20
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> >>I'm curious Dan. Since the alternator was cooked, was there any core >>trade-in value on it towards the new one? > See the other thread about someone getting a "rebuilt" master cylinder with a notch broken out of the gasket sealing surface.... That should tell you how closely "cores" get inspected. Wouldnt surprise me if some of the trashed parts from Dans alternator made it into "rebuilt" parts and were sold. :-( |
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