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#31
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![]() "Buster" > wrote in message ... > If it weren't for the plastic panels, what would make my Saturn better > than any other car? I've bought a couple of replacement Saturns > because they still look pretty good after several years, while the > metal paneled cars are all dinged up. Without plastic panels, there is > no significant reason for me to choose Saturn over another brand. > Buster > <snip> >> >>What's so great about polymer panels that you "must" have them? They're >>certainly nothing to cry over. They were as advance as they were going >>to get. The plastic body panels (and the low rpm peak torque) were the major reasons why I purchased two new S1 Saturns. If the S1 wagons had not been cancelled, I would have bought a third. I do not see anything in the Saturn showroom today that I would consider buying. If I am going to buy a standard GM product, I want to be able to purchase my parts from my standard GM parts (wholesale price) dealer. Since GM has also abandoned the fuel efficient mini station wagon, I can see nothing I want from GM (except a new Vette). The upside is that since GM killed the S1, the used prices have dropped significantly and a used S1 is now a great value and they are available for very low prices and parts are now appearing in the self serve wrecking yards so they will be cheaper to fix. I would advise anyone to purchase the next low mileage SW1 that they find in good condition. RIP Saturn |
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#32
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![]() "Buster" > wrote in message ... > $300-500 doesn't even cover the salesman's commision. How do you > suppose the dealer pays for the building, taxes, the lights so you can > shop at night, the guy who keeps the car clean, etc. Some profit is > essential for a retailer to stay in business, they aren't supported by > your tax dollars. That said, I'm all for getting the best deal you > can! Your buying technique is the most effective one out there, btw. > Buster I do not need a salesman or dealer's building, taxes, or lights and I do not want to pay for car washing. I would be happy to purchase on the internet and to take delivery as the car rolls off the truck. Dealers make money and sales from unknowledgeable customers and from warranty service and the significant margins on parts, shop labor and leasing. I would have happily negotiated price, and did not consider the no haggle policy an attraction. just my .02 YMMV |
#33
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On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:12:46 GMT, "Private" >
wrote: >If I am going to buy a >standard GM product, I want to be able to purchase my parts from my standard >GM parts (wholesale price) dealer. Do not bank on this too much as I have a friend that is a manager with Advanced Auto and he told me that in 2006 GM patented a LOT of new parts so that they will be dealer only and they add to list every years so buy a new GM will not be much better than a Saturn aftermarket parts wise. I have owned GM's for over 30 years (and jeeps for over 20 years and a few other brands for less but I think that I have about bought my last GM product unless they can really turn their act around. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
#34
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On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 13:04:46 GMT, Buster > wrote:
>$300-500 doesn't even cover the salesman's commision. How do you >suppose the dealer pays for the building, taxes, the lights so you can >shop at night, the guy who keeps the car clean, etc. Some profit is >essential for a retailer to stay in business, they aren't supported by >your tax dollars. That said, I'm all for getting the best deal you >can! Your buying technique is the most effective one out there, btw. >Buster Sure they can and most dealers make the money off of used cars and service anywa plus they get hidden factory insentives on sales as I have a freind that is in GM fleet sales at a dealer and he told me that when they are pushing cars at low prices to move them, GM gives them money for doing it to maintain profit for them. I have not paided over 500 bucks over true dealer cost (minus hidden kick backs) for over 25 years now and I have bought 7 new vehicles in that time frame too. If you feel sorry for them and want to bank roll them have at it but not me. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
#35
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![]() "SnoMan" > wrote in message ... > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:12:46 GMT, "Private" > > wrote: > >>If I am going to buy a >>standard GM product, I want to be able to purchase my parts from my >>standard >>GM parts (wholesale price) dealer. > > Do not bank on this too much as I have a friend that is a manager with > Advanced Auto and he told me that in 2006 GM patented a LOT of new > parts so that they will be dealer only and they add to list every > years so buy a new GM will not be much better than a Saturn > aftermarket parts wise. I have owned GM's for over 30 years (and > jeeps for over 20 years and a few other brands for less but I think > that I have about bought my last GM product unless they can really > turn their act around. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Bad news, but I was not talking about aftermarket parts or dealers. It has always bugged me that while my genuine GM parts GM dealer is happy to sell me my GM truck and car parts wholesale, they are unable to get Saturn parts through their normal (excellent) GM parts pipeline. Many simple parts that are cheap from GM (like horns and fuel filters) are exorbitant (and usually full retail) from a Saturn dealer. Aftermarket Saturn parts (when available) are much more expensive than equivalent (and widely available) aftermarket GM parts. I have been a GM (Chevy) fan for most of my life but do not like their reliance on fuel guzzling high margin luxury pickups and SUVs. Their high performance vehicles do get remarkably good fuel economy (when driven conservatively) but they have decided not to produce small, light, super fuel efficient vehicles and have abandoned the mini station wagon which I find is by far the most utilitarian body type combining good performance (because of weight) good handling (because of weight and low CG) and great economy (because of weight) and easy to park (because of size) but still versatile and big enough to pack a significant load (particularly with a roof rack and front mount rack for long loads) and are very comfortable to sleep in. GM killed the EV1 (and made Saturn carry the bad PR) and has failed to develop hybrid and/or small turbo diesel engines like the VW TDI. If Saturn still made the S series SW but with a small TDI (70 mpg) (or maybe hybrid), I would be a buyer. YMMV |
#36
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SnoMan wrote:
> Sure they can and most dealers make the money off of used cars and > service anywa plus they get hidden factory insentives on sales as I > have a freind that is in GM fleet sales at a dealer and he told me > that when they are pushing cars at low prices to move them, GM gives > them money for doing it to maintain profit for them. I have not paided > over 500 bucks over true dealer cost (minus hidden kick backs) for > over 25 years now and I have bought 7 new vehicles in that time frame > too. If you feel sorry for them and want to bank roll them have at it > but not me. A lot of people don't realize that true dealer cost, and dealer invoice are two entirely different things. $500 over dealer cost is invariably still well under invoice, is a pretty fair price to pay. Of course a dealer can't survive if everyone paid $500 over dealer cost, but fortunately there are enough people paying invoice or more to make up for those people that pay less. |
#37
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On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:49:57 -0700, SMS >
wrote: >A lot of people don't realize that true dealer cost, and dealer invoice >are two entirely different things. $500 over dealer cost is invariably >still well under invoice, is a pretty fair price to pay. Of course a >dealer can't survive if everyone paid $500 over dealer cost, but >fortunately there are enough people paying invoice or more to make up >for those people that pay less. GM used to have a minimum 3% hold back of invoice price that they would give dealer after sale and 3% of 30K is 900 bucks so even a invoice they are making at least 900 bucks on a 30K sale. They are not starving as long as they can sell something it is when they cannot sell anythiong at all that they feel the squeeze. BTW, my price factoed in hold back too when I got cars 500 or less over true cost. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
#38
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SnoMan wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:49:57 -0700, SMS > > wrote: > >> A lot of people don't realize that true dealer cost, and dealer invoice >> are two entirely different things. $500 over dealer cost is invariably >> still well under invoice, is a pretty fair price to pay. Of course a >> dealer can't survive if everyone paid $500 over dealer cost, but >> fortunately there are enough people paying invoice or more to make up >> for those people that pay less. > > > GM used to have a minimum 3% hold back of invoice price that they > would give dealer after sale and 3% of 30K is 900 bucks so even a > invoice they are making at least 900 bucks on a 30K sale. They are not > starving as long as they can sell something it is when they cannot > sell anythiong at all that they feel the squeeze. BTW, my price > factoed in hold back too when I got cars 500 or less over true cost. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Yes, you always want to factor in the hold back when calculating the price to offer. On Toyota's they had some other stuff as well, 1% for "Wholesale Financial Reserve," 2% for hold back, and 2% for TDA (ad fee). Actually the dealer does have to contribute to the regional advertising fund, but some dealers try to add that contribution back onto the invoice price, even though Toyota gives them back the 2%. In my area, it's a $500 contribution per vehicle, so if the invoice price is greater than $25,000, the $500 is more than covered by Toyota. Sometimes it's nearly impossible to find the factory to dealer incentives, but if a dealer is advertising "all at this price" at well under invoice, then you know that there are some factory to dealer incentives in place. |
#39
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On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:58:18 -0700, SMS >
wrote: >Sometimes it's nearly impossible to find the factory to dealer >incentives, but if a dealer is advertising "all at this price" at well >under invoice, then you know that there are some factory to dealer >incentives in place. Yes they are guarding that info a lot more these days but if you did around on Internet you can find out. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
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