Yielding and timing turns

This is one of those things that drives me nuts, but it could be a
driving style I learned from California that is clashing with the style of the
D.C. area. When making a left turn, I yield to opposing traffic, but if
there's a gap that I can drive through, I'll start moving forward and try to
time my turn so that I pass nicely through the gap without making anybody hit
the brakes. Well, that's the intent, anyway.
I find that very often people in this area see me moving and freak out
thinking I'm going to hit them, so they stop to let me go first. Of course
that totally screws up the timing of the maneuver.
Yesterday that happened in a dangerous way. There was a pickup coming
with it's right turn signal on - intending to turn into the same street I was.
She had a largish gap behind her, with the cars following her going straight.
When she approached the intersection, I started moving forward and tried to
insert myself between her and the traffic behind her. She totally freaked, got
halfway into her turn and stopped. Of course I had to stop in order to not
hit her, but the cars behind her were now approaching fast. I waved her
forward (while I cussed her out), and after hesitating, she finally completed
her turn and then I was able to move out of the way of the other traffic. Argh!
I guess the by-the-book correct driving style would be to wait for ALL
traffic to clear before moving forward, but then you're sitting there for
another light cycle and throughput goes through the window.

- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"

Sharon wrote: <brevity snip>

> I guess the by-the-book correct driving style would be to wait for ALL
> traffic to clear before moving forward, but then you're sitting there for
> another light cycle and throughput goes through the window.

ISTM your confidence may be allowing you to encroach into other's
safety zones and inciting them to stop and/or slow significantly to
ensure avoidance of a crash with you. It sure seems they're reacting
to, and extremely uncomfortable with, your actions.

Safety trumps throughput in all instances. Keep your priorities
straight. No fender bender has ever increased throughput.
-----

- gpsman

I would add that if the person at the front of the gap is slowing or
stopping unexpectedly (maybe for some hazard he can see that you can't;
maybe for figments of his imagination), that too can screw up the
timing.

(Most people turning left through a gap in traffic err on the opposite
extreme, of course -- overestimating the size of the gap,
underestimating the speed of the oncoming traffic, or just throwing
manners and safety out the window and shoving their way through. This
is important to the original poster's scenario because oncoming drivers
might be accustomed to clueless left turns and conditioned to flinch at
evidence of them. )

I also don't like to point my car and cut my wheels in a way that would
send me across oncoming traffic if I got hit from behind (either by
somebody else making a left turn or someone who meant to go straight
but couldn't keep all his stuff in his lane). I wonder if the original
poster is doing so, and if *that's* what oncoming drivers are keying on
when they get scared.


> Safety trumps throughput in all instances.
Couldn't think of a better bottom line if I tried, so I'll just leave
it at that!

"Ad absurdum per aspera" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I would add that if the person at the front of the gap is slowing or
> stopping unexpectedly (maybe for some hazard he can see that you can't;
> maybe for figments of his imagination), that too can screw up the
> timing.
>
> (Most people turning left through a gap in traffic err on the opposite
> extreme, of course -- overestimating the size of the gap,
> underestimating the speed of the oncoming traffic, or just throwing
> manners and safety out the window and shoving their way through. This
> is important to the original poster's scenario because oncoming drivers
> might be accustomed to clueless left turns and conditioned to flinch at
> evidence of them. )
>
> I also don't like to point my car and cut my wheels in a way that would
> send me across oncoming traffic if I got hit from behind (either by
> somebody else making a left turn or someone who meant to go straight
> but couldn't keep all his stuff in his lane). I wonder if the original
> poster is doing so, and if *that's* what oncoming drivers are keying on
> when they get scared.

Agreed on all counts. There is a *reason* drivers flinch at the person
starting move to turn in front of them. It is because *all* of us have had
a poor driver pull the ultimate cut off maneuver of turning left in our
path.

brink

brink wrote:

> Agreed on all counts. There is a *reason* drivers flinch at the person
> starting move to turn in front of them. It is because *all* of us have had
> a poor driver pull the ultimate cut off maneuver of turning left in our
> path.
>
> brink

Not only that, sometimes the unexpected happens. I turned left in
front of traffic with LOTS of room once. Well, there was lots of
room....until my engined died right there in the middle of the lanes.
No time to start, coast, or anything. Just stopped. Nothing to do but
watch to the right and see what the guys about to hit me would do.
They were cool, and figured they'd just drive behind the idiot who
parked in the middle of the lanes. phew.

Moral: leave room for the unexpected, because sooner or later it will
happen.

In article . com>, "Ad absurdum per aspera" > writes:
> I would add that if the person at the front of the gap is slowing or
> stopping unexpectedly (maybe for some hazard he can see that you can't;
> maybe for figments of his imagination), that too can screw up the
> timing.
>
> (Most people turning left through a gap in traffic err on the opposite
> extreme, of course -- overestimating the size of the gap,
> underestimating the speed of the oncoming traffic, or just throwing
> manners and safety out the window and shoving their way through. This
> is important to the original poster's scenario because oncoming drivers
> might be accustomed to clueless left turns and conditioned to flinch at
> evidence of them. )
>
> I also don't like to point my car and cut my wheels in a way that would
> send me across oncoming traffic if I got hit from behind (either by
> somebody else making a left turn or someone who meant to go straight
> but couldn't keep all his stuff in his lane). I wonder if the original
> poster is doing so, and if *that's* what oncoming drivers are keying on
> when they get scared.

Nope, I heard that safety tip too, so I always keep my truck pointed
straight until I'm actually turning. I guess maybe I'm moving forward a little
too soon and they think I'm going to cut them off.
Most of the time when this happens, I'm waiting for a lone straggler in
the right oncoming lane to pass and there's nobody behind him. My light turns
yellow as he approaches, so I get antsy because I don't want to either cut him
off or get stuck in the intersection on a red. To my dismay, the straggler
gradually slows down and either makes his right turn at .004 mph or he stops
at the red - leaving me in the middle of the intersection. Argh!

>> Safety trumps throughput in all instances.
> Couldn't think of a better bottom line if I tried, so I'll just leave
> it at that!

Yes, true. I think the dense traffic in this area is what makes me
really impatient. There are a few intersections between my home and work that
take a few cycles to get through. It makes me get really annoyed at stragglers
and timid drivers and people who fall asleep when the light turns green.

- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"

In article .com>, "gpsman" > writes:
> Sharon wrote:
>
>> Most of the time when this happens, I'm waiting for a lone straggler in
>> the right oncoming lane to pass and there's nobody behind him. My light turns
>> yellow as he approaches, so I get antsy because I don't want to either cut him
>> off or get stuck in the intersection on a red. To my dismay, the straggler
>> gradually slows down and either makes his right turn at .004 mph or he stops
>> at the red - leaving me in the middle of the intersection. Argh!
>
> Once you're "in" the intersection you're permitted to continue your
> turn on red.

I know, but I try not to impede others. Unlike most other drivers in
the D.C. area... It's really schizo here; I've been honked at for completing
my turn on a red, and other times I've seen intersections fill up with cars
that had nowhere to go and not a peep out of anybody when the light changed.
Most often in the scenario listed above, I end up kicking myself mentally and
thinking that I should have just gone ahead instead of waiting for the idiot.
My mistake is assuming that other drivers are rational, and they seldom are.


- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"

In article .com>, gpsman wrote:

> Once you're "in" the intersection you're permitted to continue your
> turn on red.

You should try teaching some cops and judges that.

Sharon wrote: <brevity snip>
> "gpsman" writes:

> > Once you're "in" the intersection you're permitted to continue your
> > turn on red.
>
> I know, but I try not to impede others. Unlike most other drivers in
> the D.C. area... It's really schizo here; I've been honked at for completing
> my turn on a red, and other times I've seen intersections fill up with cars
> that had nowhere to go and not a peep out of anybody when the light changed.
> Most often in the scenario listed above, I end up kicking myself mentally and
> thinking that I should have just gone ahead instead of waiting for the idiot.
> My mistake is assuming that other drivers are rational, and they seldom are.

People who use their horn to signal their displeasure with another
driver's legal and safe actions are evidently ignorant of both the
traffic code and the purpose of the horn.

Inappropiate "honking" is used by the ignorant in an attempt to
influence the emotions of others, since that's easier than exerting a
little control over their own emotions.

I smile and wave as if they must know me and are just saying Hi... that
always ****es 'em off to no end. I highly recommend the practice as a
matter of amusement.
-----

- gpsman

"gpsman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Sharon wrote: <brevity snip>
>> "gpsman" writes:
>
>> > Once you're "in" the intersection you're permitted to continue your
>> > turn on red.
>>
>> I know, but I try not to impede others. Unlike most other drivers in
>> the D.C. area... It's really schizo here; I've been honked at for
>> completing
>> my turn on a red, and other times I've seen intersections fill up with
>> cars
>> that had nowhere to go and not a peep out of anybody when the light
>> changed.
>> Most often in the scenario listed above, I end up kicking myself mentally
>> and
>> thinking that I should have just gone ahead instead of waiting for the
>> idiot.
>> My mistake is assuming that other drivers are rational, and they seldom
>> are.
>
> People who use their horn to signal their displeasure with another
> driver's legal and safe actions are evidently ignorant of both the
> traffic code and the purpose of the horn.
>
> Inappropiate "honking" is used by the ignorant in an attempt to
> influence the emotions of others, since that's easier than exerting a
> little control over their own emotions.

Where does an inattentive driver fit into your scenario, say someone who is
missing the fact that the green arrow has come on and is blocking an entire
lane of traffic from moving? I guess technically he's safe since I doubt
he'd cause any accidents, and he might even be legal in doing so -- I'm
really not sure...

All I know is sometimes the horn is handy for "waking someone up" who isn't
necessarily driving unsafely or illegally... they just need a reminder that
something has perhaps escaped their attention... nothing emotional about
that.

By the by, when I use my horn in that manner, I do the ol' "tap-tap"
method... seems a couple of short beeps are perceived as much more polite
than a big fat "HONNNNNNK"... ;-)

brink