American vs German Quality

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> KokomoKid wrote:
>
> > "Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
> > news:HVmud.473200$nl.323278@pd7tw3no...
> >
> >>"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >>
> >>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
> >>>news:0zJtd.464798$%k.116826@pd7tw2no...
> >>>
> >>>>>>Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the
> >>
> >>old
> >>
> >>>>>air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra
> >
> > valve
> >
> >>>>jobs
> >>>>
> >>>>>thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them
> >>
> >>reliable,
> >>
> >>>>>even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity
> >
> > was
> >
> >>a
> >>
> >>>>big
> >>>>
> >>>>>part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple.
> >>>
> >>>Plus,
> >>>
> >>>>>one frat boy could push it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Air cooled Vee Dubs were a lot more durable than that. Especially the
> >>>>1200's. They would really last, and were very reliable.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>They needed lots of valve adjustments, and relatively frequent oil
> >
> > changes
> >
> >>>since they had no filter, but if the received the maintenance, they
> >
> > would
> >
> >>>hold up. I put almost 100K miles on a '65, the last 1200 sold in the
> >>
> >>U.S.,
> >>
> >>>and everything except the clutch and throwout bearing was original.
> >
> > They
> >
> >>>definitely required lots of routine maintenance, though, compared to
> >>>today's cars. If you didn't adjust the valves every 10K miles or so,
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>could very easily end up with a burned valve because they would get too
> >>>"tight."
> >>
> >>Not my experience. My valves always got loose, and not that often.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Mine only got tighter than they were set a time or two, but it did
happen.
> > Some points of wear make them get tight, and others make them get loose.
I
> > probably checked them more often than necessary, but at the time I had
more
> > spare time than money.
>
> I used to work with an avid air-cooled VW aficianado. He insisted that
> overheating an air-head was the quickest way to cause the valves to
> "tighten" because the valve stems would actually stretch under the
> spring tension, allowing the lash clearance to close up and thus leading
> to a valve leak that would burn a valve.
>
> And yes, he was ALWAYS pulling the engines out and doing maintenance. He
> had over 200k miles on one of them, but probably no more than 30-40 k
> without some form of fairly major dis-assembly.
>
O.K. I'm curious, what major work was required at 30-40k. I'm assuming
we're talking about stock engines and not modified racing one's right?

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> KokomoKid wrote:
>
> > "Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
> > news:HVmud.473200$nl.323278@pd7tw3no...
> >
> >>"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >>
> >>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
> >>>news:0zJtd.464798$%k.116826@pd7tw2no...
> >>>
> >>>>>>Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the
> >>
> >>old
> >>
> >>>>>air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra
> >
> > valve
> >
> >>>>jobs
> >>>>
> >>>>>thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them
> >>
> >>reliable,
> >>
> >>>>>even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity
> >
> > was
> >
> >>a
> >>
> >>>>big
> >>>>
> >>>>>part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple.
> >>>
> >>>Plus,
> >>>
> >>>>>one frat boy could push it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Air cooled Vee Dubs were a lot more durable than that. Especially the
> >>>>1200's. They would really last, and were very reliable.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>They needed lots of valve adjustments, and relatively frequent oil
> >
> > changes
> >
> >>>since they had no filter, but if the received the maintenance, they
> >
> > would
> >
> >>>hold up. I put almost 100K miles on a '65, the last 1200 sold in the
> >>
> >>U.S.,
> >>
> >>>and everything except the clutch and throwout bearing was original.
> >
> > They
> >
> >>>definitely required lots of routine maintenance, though, compared to
> >>>today's cars. If you didn't adjust the valves every 10K miles or so,
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>could very easily end up with a burned valve because they would get too
> >>>"tight."
> >>
> >>Not my experience. My valves always got loose, and not that often.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Mine only got tighter than they were set a time or two, but it did
happen.
> > Some points of wear make them get tight, and others make them get loose.
I
> > probably checked them more often than necessary, but at the time I had
more
> > spare time than money.
>
> I used to work with an avid air-cooled VW aficianado. He insisted that
> overheating an air-head was the quickest way to cause the valves to
> "tighten" because the valve stems would actually stretch under the
> spring tension, allowing the lash clearance to close up and thus leading
> to a valve leak that would burn a valve.
>
> And yes, he was ALWAYS pulling the engines out and doing maintenance. He
> had over 200k miles on one of them, but probably no more than 30-40 k
> without some form of fairly major dis-assembly.
>
O.K. I'm curious, what major work was required at 30-40k. I'm assuming
we're talking about stock engines and not modified racing one's right?

Rick Blaine wrote:

> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>KokomoKid wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
>>>news:HVmud.473200$nl.323278@pd7tw3no...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
>>>>>news:0zJtd.464798$%k.116826@pd7tw2no...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra
>>>
>>>valve
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>jobs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them
>>>>
>>>>reliable,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity
>>>
>>>was
>>>
>>>
>>>>a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>big
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>Plus,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>one frat boy could push it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Air cooled Vee Dubs were a lot more durable than that. Especially the
>>>>>>1200's. They would really last, and were very reliable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They needed lots of valve adjustments, and relatively frequent oil
>>>
>>>changes
>>>
>>>
>>>>>since they had no filter, but if the received the maintenance, they
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>
>>>>>hold up. I put almost 100K miles on a '65, the last 1200 sold in the
>>>>
>>>>U.S.,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and everything except the clutch and throwout bearing was original.
>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>>definitely required lots of routine maintenance, though, compared to
>>>>>today's cars. If you didn't adjust the valves every 10K miles or so,
>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>could very easily end up with a burned valve because they would get too
>>>>>"tight."
>>>>
>>>>Not my experience. My valves always got loose, and not that often.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mine only got tighter than they were set a time or two, but it did
>
> happen.
>
>>>Some points of wear make them get tight, and others make them get loose.
>
> I
>
>>>probably checked them more often than necessary, but at the time I had
>
> more
>
>>>spare time than money.
>>
>>I used to work with an avid air-cooled VW aficianado. He insisted that
>>overheating an air-head was the quickest way to cause the valves to
>>"tighten" because the valve stems would actually stretch under the
>>spring tension, allowing the lash clearance to close up and thus leading
>>to a valve leak that would burn a valve.
>>
>>And yes, he was ALWAYS pulling the engines out and doing maintenance. He
>>had over 200k miles on one of them, but probably no more than 30-40 k
>>without some form of fairly major dis-assembly.
>>
>
> O.K. I'm curious, what major work was required at 30-40k. I'm assuming
> we're talking about stock engines and not modified racing one's right?

Stock engines, and the Bug was a '63 IIRC. The Bus was more like a '68.
I don't remember exactly what all he did to them routinely, he was
probably more of a maintenance fanatic than he really had to be. He did
claim that pulling the engine was far easier than doing ANY work on it
in the chassis. He finally replaced the Bus with a Vanagon in the late
'80s, and not long after that he got rid of all his VWs. The Vanagon put
him off them for good, I'm afraid.

Rick Blaine wrote:

> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>KokomoKid wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
>>>news:HVmud.473200$nl.323278@pd7tw3no...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
>>>>>news:0zJtd.464798$%k.116826@pd7tw2no...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra
>>>
>>>valve
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>jobs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them
>>>>
>>>>reliable,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity
>>>
>>>was
>>>
>>>
>>>>a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>big
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>Plus,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>one frat boy could push it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Air cooled Vee Dubs were a lot more durable than that. Especially the
>>>>>>1200's. They would really last, and were very reliable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They needed lots of valve adjustments, and relatively frequent oil
>>>
>>>changes
>>>
>>>
>>>>>since they had no filter, but if the received the maintenance, they
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>
>>>>>hold up. I put almost 100K miles on a '65, the last 1200 sold in the
>>>>
>>>>U.S.,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and everything except the clutch and throwout bearing was original.
>>>
>>>They
>>>
>>>
>>>>>definitely required lots of routine maintenance, though, compared to
>>>>>today's cars. If you didn't adjust the valves every 10K miles or so,
>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>could very easily end up with a burned valve because they would get too
>>>>>"tight."
>>>>
>>>>Not my experience. My valves always got loose, and not that often.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mine only got tighter than they were set a time or two, but it did
>
> happen.
>
>>>Some points of wear make them get tight, and others make them get loose.
>
> I
>
>>>probably checked them more often than necessary, but at the time I had
>
> more
>
>>>spare time than money.
>>
>>I used to work with an avid air-cooled VW aficianado. He insisted that
>>overheating an air-head was the quickest way to cause the valves to
>>"tighten" because the valve stems would actually stretch under the
>>spring tension, allowing the lash clearance to close up and thus leading
>>to a valve leak that would burn a valve.
>>
>>And yes, he was ALWAYS pulling the engines out and doing maintenance. He
>>had over 200k miles on one of them, but probably no more than 30-40 k
>>without some form of fairly major dis-assembly.
>>
>
> O.K. I'm curious, what major work was required at 30-40k. I'm assuming
> we're talking about stock engines and not modified racing one's right?

Stock engines, and the Bug was a '63 IIRC. The Bus was more like a '68.
I don't remember exactly what all he did to them routinely, he was
probably more of a maintenance fanatic than he really had to be. He did
claim that pulling the engine was far easier than doing ANY work on it
in the chassis. He finally replaced the Bus with a Vanagon in the late
'80s, and not long after that he got rid of all his VWs. The Vanagon put
him off them for good, I'm afraid.