Haynes manual instructions

In article <4Bbtd.449741$nl.194473@pd7tw3no>,
Ray > wrote:

> Neil,
> I'm just a Diy'er, not a pro mechanic.

Understood, still, sometimes stuff shows up on e-bay and there's
P2P also.

> The original post had to do with Haynes manuals. Once you use a real
> manual, you'll never go back to a Haynes.

I've got one Haynes manual that I've had for about 27 years, it's
on air cooled VWs, and gets used on the rare occasion that a bug
shows up at my door. Needless to say, the content is very
frustrating.

In article >,
Lawrence Glickman > wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:48:30 GMT, Neil Nelson >
> wrote:
> >
> >If on the other hand, you're making some sort of threat, take
> >I-94 north to Milwaukee, merge onto I-43 north towards Green Bay,
> >continue north appx 20 miles, exit at exit 92, go 1.5 miles to
> >the west. As soon as I smell a foul odor, I'll flag you down.
>
> I'll be paying you a visit someday bud. You can bet on it.

Excellent. I'll make sure that your trailer hitch and chain are
gift wrapped real pretty.

In article >,
Lawrence Glickman > wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:48:30 GMT, Neil Nelson >
> wrote:
> >
> >If on the other hand, you're making some sort of threat, take
> >I-94 north to Milwaukee, merge onto I-43 north towards Green Bay,
> >continue north appx 20 miles, exit at exit 92, go 1.5 miles to
> >the west. As soon as I smell a foul odor, I'll flag you down.
>
> I'll be paying you a visit someday bud. You can bet on it.

Excellent. I'll make sure that your trailer hitch and chain are
gift wrapped real pretty.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:50:14 GMT, Ray > wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>>And a shop manual is pretty much ESSENTIAL for ODB-II diagnostic
>>>procedures.
>>
>>
>> Well I have a PIM manual that came with my scanner, and OBDII
>> diagnostic CD Roms, BUT, the translations of the codes are built Into
>> the 9145, so after entering your car made, model, and year, you get
>> the proper interpretation of the code right on the display of the
>> 9145. No need for a manual to translate, although I have both the
>> manual and the CD Roms.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>Uh, ok... but does it cover FIXING anything?

Of course not. I only paid a few hundred for it. Now the $5000 jobs
the dealers use, yes, that will fix anything. I think you can buy one
from Snap On for $3000. The one's the dealers use get updated via
satellite dish from company headquarters.

Then again, you're not going to use a scanner all that often on 1 car
to justify that kind of expense.

The one I have gives me *clues.* Then I have to do some detective
work. How good is it? Haven't had any codes at all so far on the
2003 so I can't tell ya. I almost am tempted to pull the vacuum hose
off the egr valve just to throw an MIL code so I can SEE what I get in
the way of a diagnosis. Might do that tomorrow.

> My TA shop manual has
>flowcharts for EACH OBD-II code. That section alone is like 500 pages.

Well OK, I got what I paid for. Hey it is better than nothing. You
know what a dealer charges to READ your codes for you? $75
They may or may not include that in the cost of the repair.

But you have to go with some kind of scan tool on these new cars. You
agree with that, right? I mean they're computerized, everything is
controlled by electronics, so without some kind of scanner a person
wouldn't have a clue where to begin to look. Without some kind of
code to give a little direction.

>And I forgot - I have used my laptop with the car - I bought an AutoTap
>scantool. I will eventually take one of my old PC's and move it into
>the garage...

I think AutoTap is a great idea. My only question is how deep does it
dig into any 1 make of car. I can only see my engine emission-related
things, can't read, for example, transmission fluid temps, toggle
solenoids, check this and that.

>And yes, I can browse/wander through a paper manual much better than a
>computerized one - especially when you're looking for "something" that
>doesn't fit nicely into any category. An example - the vacuum lines for
>the wife's Beretta's A/C. Found the best description for it with the
>wiring diagrams. Weird, but that's where they put it. Now, if the
>manual was full-text searchable...

Well that's the idea of putting it on CD ROM.
I have an Encyclopedia on CD ROM, and if I want to search on some
idea, I can pull up -every- reference to it, no matter what article it
appears in. Can't do that with a book.

So they each have their advantages and disadvantages, books and CD
ROM.

Lg

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:50:14 GMT, Ray > wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>>And a shop manual is pretty much ESSENTIAL for ODB-II diagnostic
>>>procedures.
>>
>>
>> Well I have a PIM manual that came with my scanner, and OBDII
>> diagnostic CD Roms, BUT, the translations of the codes are built Into
>> the 9145, so after entering your car made, model, and year, you get
>> the proper interpretation of the code right on the display of the
>> 9145. No need for a manual to translate, although I have both the
>> manual and the CD Roms.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>Uh, ok... but does it cover FIXING anything?

Of course not. I only paid a few hundred for it. Now the $5000 jobs
the dealers use, yes, that will fix anything. I think you can buy one
from Snap On for $3000. The one's the dealers use get updated via
satellite dish from company headquarters.

Then again, you're not going to use a scanner all that often on 1 car
to justify that kind of expense.

The one I have gives me *clues.* Then I have to do some detective
work. How good is it? Haven't had any codes at all so far on the
2003 so I can't tell ya. I almost am tempted to pull the vacuum hose
off the egr valve just to throw an MIL code so I can SEE what I get in
the way of a diagnosis. Might do that tomorrow.

> My TA shop manual has
>flowcharts for EACH OBD-II code. That section alone is like 500 pages.

Well OK, I got what I paid for. Hey it is better than nothing. You
know what a dealer charges to READ your codes for you? $75
They may or may not include that in the cost of the repair.

But you have to go with some kind of scan tool on these new cars. You
agree with that, right? I mean they're computerized, everything is
controlled by electronics, so without some kind of scanner a person
wouldn't have a clue where to begin to look. Without some kind of
code to give a little direction.

>And I forgot - I have used my laptop with the car - I bought an AutoTap
>scantool. I will eventually take one of my old PC's and move it into
>the garage...

I think AutoTap is a great idea. My only question is how deep does it
dig into any 1 make of car. I can only see my engine emission-related
things, can't read, for example, transmission fluid temps, toggle
solenoids, check this and that.

>And yes, I can browse/wander through a paper manual much better than a
>computerized one - especially when you're looking for "something" that
>doesn't fit nicely into any category. An example - the vacuum lines for
>the wife's Beretta's A/C. Found the best description for it with the
>wiring diagrams. Weird, but that's where they put it. Now, if the
>manual was full-text searchable...

Well that's the idea of putting it on CD ROM.
I have an Encyclopedia on CD ROM, and if I want to search on some
idea, I can pull up -every- reference to it, no matter what article it
appears in. Can't do that with a book.

So they each have their advantages and disadvantages, books and CD
ROM.

Lg

Neil Nelson wrote:

> In article >,
> Arif Khokar > wrote:

>>I wonder why more DIYs and mechanics don't bother using latex gloves
>>while they work.

> Allergic to latex would be one reason,

There are nonlatex substitutes available if needed

> for others it's that they make your hands sweat profusely.

Only after an hour or so. At that point, one can take a break, and
change their gloves.

Neil Nelson wrote:

> In article >,
> Arif Khokar > wrote:

>>I wonder why more DIYs and mechanics don't bother using latex gloves
>>while they work.

> Allergic to latex would be one reason,

There are nonlatex substitutes available if needed

> for others it's that they make your hands sweat profusely.

Only after an hour or so. At that point, one can take a break, and
change their gloves.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:14:13 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

||>I found factory manual on eBay for $105 and shiping was ~ $50 :-)
||
||That's right, Yvan. It is big, it is expensive, it is heavy, and
||you'll never even use or need 99.99% of the information in there.
||That's why I would go for the *online* service, IF they have
||documentation for your model car ( and year ).

But if you use it once, it paid for itself.
Same with any special tools you must acquire.

||>| Sometimes it makes more sense to bring the dang thing into a qualified
||>| service shop.

Pretty rarely in my experience.

||>Every time I go to my mechanic I am more and more convinced that I
||>should do repair by myself, since where I am there is no such thing as
||>"qualified service shop". And Audi service is to expensive for me.
||
||Exactly so Yvan. All service shops charge you twice. The
||technician-baffoon get's 1/2, and the *house* gets 1/2.
||
||And when I say baffoon, I am paying them a compliment. I had my
||rotors turned at a brake shop, and when I got em back from the ******
||who did the work, they were grooved so badly in a spiral pattern I
||could have used them for a barber pole.
||
||NEVER AGAIN !
||
||These *service shop* guys out here, VERY few of them know any more
||about what they are doing than you and I do, very few. Most are
||retards that are hired for the manual labor. No small wonder that
||their first names are Manny.

You are doing a disservice to all the true professionals in the auto service
industry. To be a competent tech today requires the equivalent of a college
degree plus continuing education to stay current. There is a cost for that.
They DIYer only has to be an expert on a few cars, at most, and he can acquire
that knowledge on his/her own schedule. Over the years I have accumulated
books, tools, and shop space sufficient to do most any repair job possible,
including mounting and balancing tires, and turning brake rotors. It has paid
for itself many times in repairs I have done myself. And I can get most of my
investment back should I decide to sell it off.
But sometimes I do take a vehicle to a pro, either because I just don't want
to do that job myself, or for time/convenience reasons.
Texas Parts Guy

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:14:13 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

||>I found factory manual on eBay for $105 and shiping was ~ $50 :-)
||
||That's right, Yvan. It is big, it is expensive, it is heavy, and
||you'll never even use or need 99.99% of the information in there.
||That's why I would go for the *online* service, IF they have
||documentation for your model car ( and year ).

But if you use it once, it paid for itself.
Same with any special tools you must acquire.

||>| Sometimes it makes more sense to bring the dang thing into a qualified
||>| service shop.

Pretty rarely in my experience.

||>Every time I go to my mechanic I am more and more convinced that I
||>should do repair by myself, since where I am there is no such thing as
||>"qualified service shop". And Audi service is to expensive for me.
||
||Exactly so Yvan. All service shops charge you twice. The
||technician-baffoon get's 1/2, and the *house* gets 1/2.
||
||And when I say baffoon, I am paying them a compliment. I had my
||rotors turned at a brake shop, and when I got em back from the ******
||who did the work, they were grooved so badly in a spiral pattern I
||could have used them for a barber pole.
||
||NEVER AGAIN !
||
||These *service shop* guys out here, VERY few of them know any more
||about what they are doing than you and I do, very few. Most are
||retards that are hired for the manual labor. No small wonder that
||their first names are Manny.

You are doing a disservice to all the true professionals in the auto service
industry. To be a competent tech today requires the equivalent of a college
degree plus continuing education to stay current. There is a cost for that.
They DIYer only has to be an expert on a few cars, at most, and he can acquire
that knowledge on his/her own schedule. Over the years I have accumulated
books, tools, and shop space sufficient to do most any repair job possible,
including mounting and balancing tires, and turning brake rotors. It has paid
for itself many times in repairs I have done myself. And I can get most of my
investment back should I decide to sell it off.
But sometimes I do take a vehicle to a pro, either because I just don't want
to do that job myself, or for time/convenience reasons.
Texas Parts Guy

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:58:25 GMT, ) wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:14:13 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:
>
>||>I found factory manual on eBay for $105 and shiping was ~ $50 :-)
>||
>||That's right, Yvan. It is big, it is expensive, it is heavy, and
>||you'll never even use or need 99.99% of the information in there.
>||That's why I would go for the *online* service, IF they have
>||documentation for your model car ( and year ).
>
>But if you use it once, it paid for itself.
>Same with any special tools you must acquire.

Yes, and even more important than that, I will be happy to have some
parts diagrams identifying -everything- I can get to in my engine
compartment. That alone is worth the price of subscription to me.

>||>| Sometimes it makes more sense to bring the dang thing into a qualified
>||>| service shop.
>
>Pretty rarely in my experience.
>

I've need pipes welded before in the exhaust system and such. That
kind of thing, when I had a flex pipe break at where it connects with
the forward exhaust, I farmed out the job. They had the welder, the
hangers, brackets, whatever, were done with the job in 20 minutes
after they got the part in. So, it was worth it in that instance.

>||>Every time I go to my mechanic I am more and more convinced that I
>||>should do repair by myself, since where I am there is no such thing as
>||>"qualified service shop". And Audi service is to expensive for me.
>||
>||Exactly so Yvan. All service shops charge you twice. The
>||technician-baffoon get's 1/2, and the *house* gets 1/2.
>||
>||And when I say baffoon, I am paying them a compliment. I had my
>||rotors turned at a brake shop, and when I got em back from the ******
>||who did the work, they were grooved so badly in a spiral pattern I
>||could have used them for a barber pole.
>||
>||NEVER AGAIN !
>||
>||These *service shop* guys out here, VERY few of them know any more
>||about what they are doing than you and I do, very few. Most are
>||retards that are hired for the manual labor. No small wonder that
>||their first names are Manny.
>
>You are doing a disservice to all the true professionals in the auto service
>industry.

That must be because I haven't met any yet !

> To be a competent tech today requires the equivalent of a college
>degree plus continuing education to stay current. There is a cost for that.
> They DIYer only has to be an expert on a few cars, at most, and he can acquire
>that knowledge on his/her own schedule. Over the years I have accumulated
>books, tools, and shop space sufficient to do most any repair job possible,
>including mounting and balancing tires, and turning brake rotors. It has paid
>for itself many times in repairs I have done myself. And I can get most of my
>investment back should I decide to sell it off.
> But sometimes I do take a vehicle to a pro, either because I just don't want
>to do that job myself, or for time/convenience reasons.
>Texas Parts Guy

Since I only have 1 car, do _not_ have an engine lift and all the
time, tools, and parts in the world, some jobs will always go to the
shop. But I hope to be competent enough to know when the task is
something I -can- handle, and save a _wad_ on labor rates, dealer
markups, and so forth.

Lucky me, my car is under warranty right now, but someday it won't be.

Lg