Proper Radiator Cap Pressure Rating for 1994 Honda Accord EX?

Thanks to all "point/counterpoint" advice given in this thread. It has been
very helpful in helping me establish the criteria from which to proceed. I
am leaning towards the DIY attempt. I will limit myself to replacing
whatever comes in a head gasket set (4 gaskets and valve seals?) for my 1994
Honda Accord EX; no timing belt, no water pump. This 300K car has enough
miles on it that anything (transmission?) could go bad tomorrow, so I will
replace some gaskets and seals that probably need to be fixed anyway, and
we'll see where the chips fall. Right now the car is parked, and will remain
so until problem is resolved.

1) What is the best way to clean the head and block surfaces without
scratching anything?
2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion gas, no oil. I
have not lost any coolant
since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is currently not
sufficient to cause
liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect the damage to the
gasket(s) to be
visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?

Gary


"Elle" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "Gary Kaucher" > wrote
> snip for brevity
> > I see references to ECT & TW sensors, and Auxiliary Fan
> > Switch. Are they all
> > the same thing? What is the sensor that
> > turns on the fans on 94 Honda Accord EX (4 cyl, 4door)? I
> > suspect I could
> > remove the sensor and check for
> > contnuity by placing the sensing part in boiling water,
> > just to see if it
> > responds.
> >
> > This car has only been used for short trips over country
> > roads, with very
> > little stop and go. It has almost 300K, and I suspect that
> > the sensor (whatever it's called) is original.
>
> Seems like your concern about the fan sensors is not being
> fully addressed. For your reference, a lot of heating before
> the fan comes on from cold engine is usual. On a mild summer
> day, my 91 Civic's rad fan does not come on for 40 minutes
> or so. This I have timed on a few occasions in the past.
> Then it stays on for IIRC something like 15 seconds. Goes
> off. Something like five minutes later it comes on again. (I
> performed this check during air purges of the cooling
> system.) The car runs great. No overheating problems
> whatsoever.
>
> One could research the details of when the fan comes on, but
> I think the potential conflicts of questionably matched
> parts (thermostat, rad cap, unknown radiator and fan makes,
> which might mean little if anything) makes such an analysis
> a bit of a crap shoot as far as deducing anything.
>
> Toss in that you're just now learning where key components
> like the bleed nipple are, and I think maybe you're in a tad
> over your head, Gary. You're a sharp enough sounding person,
> and I think you're going to nail this sooner rather than
> later, but being grounded in the experience of what most
> often causes whatever problem in a car tempers judgement
> calls on what is most likely "Thee Problem."
>
> A friend of mine paid under $50 at the local Honda
> dealership not long ago to get the test Tegger and the
> Beamer describe: Pressure test the cooling system and check
> for exhaust gas products in the coolant. It quickly
> ascertained that the head gasket failed. She had them do the
> repair. Sure the machining can always be questioned but the
> fact is on a roughly $1000 repair job an extra $50 or so
> IIRC for the machining so one can drive knowing the car is
> reliable isn't such a bad deal. Car runs fine now.
>
> Of course, then the issue becomes what was behind this.
> Aftermarket radiators are very common in Hondas and don't
> seem to be a problem. Aftermarket thermostats are
> questionable, by reports here and IIRC the Honda manual. I'd
> say not to mess with aftermarket rad caps, too.
>
> I'd go with the results of the cooling system test, trust
> the radiator and fan (and fan sensors) for now, but as I
> think you already did, replace the thermostat with OEM and
> also the rad cap.
>
> I trust you found the free online manuals at
> www.autozone.com (a Chilton's manual but with many excerpts
> from the factory service manual) and
> http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html (has a 91-93
> Accord manual which should nonetheless have some useful info
> for your 94 on this). You can bounce part numbers for your
> 94 against the 93's using online parts sites like
> www.slhonda.com and www.hondaautomotiveparts.com , to see
> how similar they are, for one.
>
>

Gary Kaucher wrote:
> Thanks to all "point/counterpoint" advice given in this thread. It has been
> very helpful in helping me establish the criteria from which to proceed. I
> am leaning towards the DIY attempt. I will limit myself to replacing
> whatever comes in a head gasket set (4 gaskets and valve seals?) for my 1994
> Honda Accord EX; no timing belt, no water pump. This 300K car has enough
> miles on it that anything (transmission?) could go bad tomorrow, so I will
> replace some gaskets and seals that probably need to be fixed anyway, and
> we'll see where the chips fall. Right now the car is parked, and will remain
> so until problem is resolved.
>
> 1) What is the best way to clean the head and block surfaces without
> scratching anything?

for my last one, i used a 4" disposable blade scraper from woolmort.
from the paint section. the wide blade reduces point contact force and
therefore tendency to gouge. i've also seen others claim success with
solvents, but i'm doubtful of the effectiveness if that. if you take
the time, you can shave the old gasket off quite successfully. if you
have success with solvent, please report accordingly! beware scraping
up the soft alloy head and block, obviously. slow and steady wins this
particular race.

> 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion gas, no oil. I
> have not lost any coolant
> since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is currently not
> sufficient to cause
> liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect the damage to the
> gasket(s) to be
> visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?

for the head, if you're lucky, no. head gaskets get big chunks eaten
out of them if they're bad, as you've probably seen before, but in the
early stages of gas leak, the most you'll see is probably just minor
discoloration of the rings.

if you want to keep this operation cheap, you can probably just get away
with just head gasket and intake manifold gasket - because i believe you
can do this job without taking the cam off. if you don't remove the
cam, there's no need to change the tube seals or the valve seals. the
exhaust gasket is almost always reusable. of course, if you want to do
the job the factory way, you'll strip, inspect, clean and reassemble
everything surgically, but paradoxically, for most of us, the problem
with total strip-down is the introduction of more grit and dirt to the
componentry than a partial job.

grit & dirt are vitally important to avoid. the worst place of all is
the cylinders. do not, do not, do not "clean" the head or cylinder
surfaces with sandpaper or other abrasive. especially not scotchbrite.
abrasive particles float about, get into the cylinder/piston gap and
get stuck where they scrape and ruin your rings. before reassembly,
raise each piston to the top of its stroke, wipe out all the material
that will inevitably fall in, then with a clean cloth, wipe the cylinder
as you push the piston back down again. clean, clean, clean. but wipe,
no solvents. and flush the detritus out of the wet liner with a gentle
hose. removing the block drain plug is a good idea for this.

good luck. and don't hesitate to ask questions.

Are you going to buy the parts online, OEM, at, for example,
www.slhonda.com ?

An update on how the job goes is welcome. One thing I will
say about Jim's comments here (not to appease him, heaven
forbid; but just to be honest) is that, if he says a
do-it-yourselfer can change a head gasket, then I believe
him. 'Cause he's fierce about jobs he really thinks an
amateur should not try.

I do stand by my caveat on machining the mating surfaces,
though (usually if any surface, just the head?). There's
just too much chatter on that everywhere, even for Hondas,
for me to believe it's not a gamble.

But maybe it's a gamble you'll win. :-)

I also think you really ought to have the coolant system
pressurized and its chemistry, checked to confirm this
gasket leak, since these tests are not too expensive. Or you
could probably do the pressure check yourself, with some
reading and a few tools.

I defer to the head gasket pros on your questions.

Good luck.

"Gary Kaucher" > wrote
> Thanks to all "point/counterpoint" advice given in this
> thread. It has been
> very helpful in helping me establish the criteria from
> which to proceed. I
> am leaning towards the DIY attempt. I will limit myself to
> replacing
> whatever comes in a head gasket set (4 gaskets and valve
> seals?) for my 1994
> Honda Accord EX; no timing belt, no water pump. This 300K
> car has enough
> miles on it that anything (transmission?) could go bad
> tomorrow, so I will
> replace some gaskets and seals that probably need to be
> fixed anyway, and
> we'll see where the chips fall. Right now the car is
> parked, and will remain
> so until problem is resolved.
>
> 1) What is the best way to clean the head and block
> surfaces without
> scratching anything?
> 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion
> gas, no oil. I
> have not lost any coolant
> since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is
> currently not
> sufficient to cause
> liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect
> the damage to the
> gasket(s) to be
> visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?

Elle wrote:
> Are you going to buy the parts online, OEM, at, for example,
> www.slhonda.com ?
>
> An update on how the job goes is welcome. One thing I will
> say about Jim's comments here (not to appease him, heaven
> forbid; but just to be honest) is that, if he says a
> do-it-yourselfer can change a head gasket, then I believe
> him. 'Cause he's fierce about jobs he really thinks an
> amateur should not try.
>
> I do stand by my caveat on machining the mating surfaces,
> though (usually if any surface, just the head?). There's
> just too much chatter on that everywhere, even for Hondas,
> for me to believe it's not a gamble.
>
> But maybe it's a gamble you'll win. :-)

1. it's only a gamble if you pay the machinist /before/ you take the
head off. otherwise you inspect and there's no gambling involved. fud
otoh is a whole different ballgame.

2. looking at this logically, it makes absolutely no sense to routinely
machine a head but not a block. apart from the actual liner, the block
mating surfaces on the honda are the same material as the head and work
in the same environment. a "clean" surface one side of the gasket but
not the other? anyone recommending machining without addressing this
logical disconnect has not given any thought about what they're doing.

seriously, the #1 reason heads get machined is to clean them. it's a
pita to do manually, but hey, from a shop's viewpoint, if it's not your
car and you don't want to spend the time and you can pass on the cost...

>
> I also think you really ought to have the coolant system
> pressurized and its chemistry, checked to confirm this
> gasket leak, since these tests are not too expensive. Or you
> could probably do the pressure check yourself, with some
> reading and a few tools.
>
> I defer to the head gasket pros on your questions.
>
> Good luck.
>
> "Gary Kaucher" > wrote
>> Thanks to all "point/counterpoint" advice given in this
>> thread. It has been
>> very helpful in helping me establish the criteria from
>> which to proceed. I
>> am leaning towards the DIY attempt. I will limit myself to
>> replacing
>> whatever comes in a head gasket set (4 gaskets and valve
>> seals?) for my 1994
>> Honda Accord EX; no timing belt, no water pump. This 300K
>> car has enough
>> miles on it that anything (transmission?) could go bad
>> tomorrow, so I will
>> replace some gaskets and seals that probably need to be
>> fixed anyway, and
>> we'll see where the chips fall. Right now the car is
>> parked, and will remain
>> so until problem is resolved.
>>
>> 1) What is the best way to clean the head and block
>> surfaces without
>> scratching anything?
>> 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion
>> gas, no oil. I
>> have not lost any coolant
>> since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is
>> currently not
>> sufficient to cause
>> liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect
>> the damage to the
>> gasket(s) to be
>> visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?
>
>

> > 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion gas, no oil.
I
> > have not lost any coolant
> > since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is currently not
> > sufficient to cause
> > liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect the damage to
the
> > gasket(s) to be
> > visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?
>
> for the head, if you're lucky, no. head gaskets get big chunks eaten
> out of them if they're bad, as you've probably seen before, but in the
> early stages of gas leak, the most you'll see is probably just minor
> discoloration of the rings.

About 6 months ago a neighbor changed the plugs for me. He told me that
one of the plugs was hard to remove, and that he almost had to use a
breaking
bar. Tegger mentioned something in a previous post that heads oftentimes
are milled
to remove corrosion. Maybe this spark plug is in the cylinder where the
breach is
located and the coolant leaking into it has corroded the spark plug threads.

> if you want to keep this operation cheap, you can probably just get away
> with just head gasket and intake manifold gasket - because i believe you
> can do this job without taking the cam off. if you don't remove the
> cam, there's no need to change the tube seals or the valve seals. the
> exhaust gasket is almost always reusable.

If the head gasket and manifold gasket are likely sources of the problem,
then I will do just them, and not do tube seals and valve seals.


of course, if you want to do
> the job the factory way, you'll strip, inspect, clean and reassemble
> everything surgically, but paradoxically, for most of us, the problem
> with total strip-down is the introduction of more grit and dirt to the
> componentry than a partial job.

Generally speaking,
the car runs good and the engine sounds good. The less I touch, the better.
In and
out with no footprints.

> grit & dirt are vitally important to avoid. the worst place of all is
> the cylinders. do not, do not, do not "clean" the head or cylinder
> surfaces with sandpaper or other abrasive. especially not scotchbrite.
> abrasive particles float about, get into the cylinder/piston gap and
> get stuck where they scrape and ruin your rings. before reassembly,
> raise each piston to the top of its stroke, wipe out all the material
> that will inevitably fall in, then with a clean cloth, wipe the cylinder
> as you push the piston back down again. clean, clean, clean. but wipe,
> no solvents. and flush the detritus out of the wet liner with a gentle
> hose. removing the block drain plug is a good idea for this.
>
> good luck. and don't hesitate to ask questions.

I read where all the coolant is suppposed to be drained out, is the oil also
supposed to be drained?

"wet liner" = coolant passages in block?
when you say "block drain plug" are you referring to coolant?

Thanks,

Gary

"Elle" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Are you going to buy the parts online, OEM, at, for example,
> www.slhonda.com ?

I will check it out.

> An update on how the job goes is welcome. One thing I will
> say about Jim's comments here (not to appease him, heaven
> forbid; but just to be honest) is that, if he says a
> do-it-yourselfer can change a head gasket, then I believe
> him. 'Cause he's fierce about jobs he really thinks an
> amateur should not try.
>
> I do stand by my caveat on machining the mating surfaces,
> though (usually if any surface, just the head?). There's
> just too much chatter on that everywhere, even for Hondas,
> for me to believe it's not a gamble.
>
> But maybe it's a gamble you'll win. :-)

Hope springs eternal! I will definitely put a straight edge on
the head and block and check things out with the feeler gauges.


> I also think you really ought to have the coolant system
> pressurized and its chemistry, checked to confirm this
> gasket leak, since these tests are not too expensive. Or you
> could probably do the pressure check yourself, with some
> reading and a few tools.

Maybe I can get a hold of one of those pressure testers. When I
remembered about the "frozen spark plug", things started to make sense.
I will do a minimal investment approach.
>
> I defer to the head gasket pros on your questions.
>
> Good luck.

Thanks for your input. It was very helpful.

Gary

Gary Kaucher wrote:
>>> 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion gas, no oil.
> I
>>> have not lost any coolant
>>> since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is currently not
>>> sufficient to cause
>>> liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect the damage to
> the
>>> gasket(s) to be
>>> visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?
>> for the head, if you're lucky, no. head gaskets get big chunks eaten
>> out of them if they're bad, as you've probably seen before, but in the
>> early stages of gas leak, the most you'll see is probably just minor
>> discoloration of the rings.
>
> About 6 months ago a neighbor changed the plugs for me. He told me that
> one of the plugs was hard to remove, and that he almost had to use a
> breaking
> bar.

could be coolant, could be crossed thread, could be leaking plug gasket
causing leaking gas to crud up the thread. when you have the head off,
take the opportunity to run a tap through the threads to clean them.
gently. M14x1.25. sears/osh, etc. start from the piston side to
ensure you don't perpetuate crossed thread damage.

> Tegger mentioned something in a previous post that heads oftentimes
> are milled
> to remove corrosion. Maybe this spark plug is in the cylinder where the
> breach is
> located and the coolant leaking into it has corroded the spark plug threads.

no. the plug is at the top of the chamber, not anywhere near the
gasket. the only way it could have corroded the plug threads is if the
block is cracked or if the cylinder's completely filled with coolant
over time and had been left to stand for an extended period. and if
/that/ had happened, it's likely to have had hydraulic lock and thus
have been impossible to start.

>
>> if you want to keep this operation cheap, you can probably just get away
>> with just head gasket and intake manifold gasket - because i believe you
>> can do this job without taking the cam off. if you don't remove the
>> cam, there's no need to change the tube seals or the valve seals. the
>> exhaust gasket is almost always reusable.
>
> If the head gasket and manifold gasket are likely sources of the problem,
> then I will do just them, and not do tube seals and valve seals.
>
>
> of course, if you want to do
>> the job the factory way, you'll strip, inspect, clean and reassemble
>> everything surgically, but paradoxically, for most of us, the problem
>> with total strip-down is the introduction of more grit and dirt to the
>> componentry than a partial job.
>
> Generally speaking,
> the car runs good and the engine sounds good. The less I touch, the better.
> In and
> out with no footprints.
>
>> grit & dirt are vitally important to avoid. the worst place of all is
>> the cylinders. do not, do not, do not "clean" the head or cylinder
>> surfaces with sandpaper or other abrasive. especially not scotchbrite.
>> abrasive particles float about, get into the cylinder/piston gap and
>> get stuck where they scrape and ruin your rings. before reassembly,
>> raise each piston to the top of its stroke, wipe out all the material
>> that will inevitably fall in, then with a clean cloth, wipe the cylinder
>> as you push the piston back down again. clean, clean, clean. but wipe,
>> no solvents. and flush the detritus out of the wet liner with a gentle
>> hose. removing the block drain plug is a good idea for this.
>>
>> good luck. and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>
> I read where all the coolant is suppposed to be drained out, is the oil also
> supposed to be drained?

drain coolant, but leave the oil in for the moment. on reassembly, let
it flush the system, then do a change after say 50 miles, then do
another change after another 500 or so.

>
> "wet liner" = coolant passages in block?

yes.

> when you say "block drain plug" are you referring to coolant?

yes. you'll see where it is when you're reading the manual ahead of
doing the job. when ordering parts, get a new drain plug gasket/seal as
these tend to corrode a little.

if you don't have air tools, you'll need a pulley wheel holder and a BIG
breaker bar to free the pulley wheel bolt. my local honda dealer rents
these out for about $20/$30. ymmv. google this group and check out
tegger.com for debate on this. other than that, the only special tool
is the manual. all fasteners are metric.

no need to disconnect the power steering hoses. the pump lifts to one
side and there's enough flex in the rubber hoses to not need to
disconnect anything. iirc, you can leave the a/c in place.

don't forget the "hidden" mounting bolts that secure the intake and
exhaust manifolds. everything comes apart easily once they're removed!
if you're lucky, and you do the lower hangers, you can move the exhaust
manifold forward without disassembling the lower pipe connections -
depends if you have frame damage or not.

"Gary Kaucher" > wrote
> "Elle" > wrote
> Maybe I can get a hold of one of those pressure testers.
> When I
> remembered about the "frozen spark plug", things started
> to make sense.
> I will do a minimal investment approach.

I forgot to add that of course you are seeing the operation
of your car up close, and experiencing its woes and studying
its symptoms daily. Maybe if I had all the input you have, I
would feel it was a slam dunk it was the head gasket (or
possibly, though admittely remotely, another cooling breach
at the head/block), so a pressure test would not be
necessary.

Your mention of the frozen spark plug is interesting. Maybe
it's nothing, but FWIW my friend with the 99 Civic who blew
a head gasket a few months ago also had one spark plug
frozen. It does make sense that this might happen on
occasion (maybe even often) with a cooling system/engine
breach, either due to warpage of engine parts or the coolant
leaking into the cylinders and getting into the plug's
threads, say.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> Gary Kaucher wrote:
> >>> 2) I believe the bubbles in the coolant is just combustion gas, no
oil.
> > I
> >>> have not lost any coolant
> >>> since the last radiator cap was installed. The breach is currently not
> >>> sufficient to cause
> >>> liquid loss, just combustion gas bubbles. Would one expect the damage
to
> > the
> >>> gasket(s) to be
> >>> visibly apparent when I remove the head or other gaskets?
> >> for the head, if you're lucky, no. head gaskets get big chunks eaten
> >> out of them if they're bad, as you've probably seen before, but in the
> >> early stages of gas leak, the most you'll see is probably just minor
> >> discoloration of the rings.
> >
> > About 6 months ago a neighbor changed the plugs for me. He told me that
> > one of the plugs was hard to remove, and that he almost had to use a
> > breaking
> > bar.
>
> could be coolant, could be crossed thread, could be leaking plug gasket
> causing leaking gas to crud up the thread. when you have the head off,
> take the opportunity to run a tap through the threads to clean them.
> gently. M14x1.25. sears/osh, etc. start from the piston side to
> ensure you don't perpetuate crossed thread damage.
>
> > Tegger mentioned something in a previous post that heads oftentimes
> > are milled
> > to remove corrosion. Maybe this spark plug is in the cylinder where the
> > breach is
> > located and the coolant leaking into it has corroded the spark plug
threads.
>
> no. the plug is at the top of the chamber, not anywhere near the
> gasket. the only way it could have corroded the plug threads is if the
> block is cracked or if the cylinder's completely filled with coolant
> over time and had been left to stand for an extended period. and if
> /that/ had happened, it's likely to have had hydraulic lock and thus
> have been impossible to start.
>
> >
> >> if you want to keep this operation cheap, you can probably just get
away
> >> with just head gasket and intake manifold gasket - because i believe
you
> >> can do this job without taking the cam off. if you don't remove the
> >> cam, there's no need to change the tube seals or the valve seals. the
> >> exhaust gasket is almost always reusable.
> >
> > If the head gasket and manifold gasket are likely sources of the
problem,
> > then I will do just them, and not do tube seals and valve seals.
> >
> >
> > of course, if you want to do
> >> the job the factory way, you'll strip, inspect, clean and reassemble
> >> everything surgically, but paradoxically, for most of us, the problem
> >> with total strip-down is the introduction of more grit and dirt to the
> >> componentry than a partial job.
> >
> > Generally speaking,
> > the car runs good and the engine sounds good. The less I touch, the
better.
> > In and
> > out with no footprints.
> >
> >> grit & dirt are vitally important to avoid. the worst place of all is
> >> the cylinders. do not, do not, do not "clean" the head or cylinder
> >> surfaces with sandpaper or other abrasive. especially not scotchbrite.
> >> abrasive particles float about, get into the cylinder/piston gap and
> >> get stuck where they scrape and ruin your rings. before reassembly,
> >> raise each piston to the top of its stroke, wipe out all the material
> >> that will inevitably fall in, then with a clean cloth, wipe the
cylinder
> >> as you push the piston back down again. clean, clean, clean. but
wipe,
> >> no solvents. and flush the detritus out of the wet liner with a gentle
> >> hose. removing the block drain plug is a good idea for this.
> >>
> >> good luck. and don't hesitate to ask questions.
> >
> > I read where all the coolant is suppposed to be drained out, is the oil
also
> > supposed to be drained?
>
> drain coolant, but leave the oil in for the moment. on reassembly, let
> it flush the system, then do a change after say 50 miles, then do
> another change after another 500 or so.
>
> >
> > "wet liner" = coolant passages in block?
>
> yes.
>
> > when you say "block drain plug" are you referring to coolant?
>
> yes. you'll see where it is when you're reading the manual ahead of
> doing the job. when ordering parts, get a new drain plug gasket/seal as
> these tend to corrode a little.
>
> if you don't have air tools, you'll need a pulley wheel holder and a BIG
> breaker bar to free the pulley wheel bolt. my local honda dealer rents
> these out for about $20/$30. ymmv. google this group and check out
> tegger.com for debate on this. other than that, the only special tool
> is the manual. all fasteners are metric.
>
> no need to disconnect the power steering hoses. the pump lifts to one
> side and there's enough flex in the rubber hoses to not need to
> disconnect anything. iirc, you can leave the a/c in place.
>
> don't forget the "hidden" mounting bolts that secure the intake and
> exhaust manifolds. everything comes apart easily once they're removed!
> if you're lucky, and you do the lower hangers, you can move the exhaust
> manifold forward without disassembling the lower pipe connections -
> depends if you have frame damage or not.


I've got everything apart and I have ordered head, intake, and exhaust
gaskets from www.slhonda.com.
I noticed that there was some deterioration of the intake manifold gasket in
the general area of the oval shaped
orange liner that I'm guessing is some kind of coolant passage. The "orange
liner" was pitted and easily
separated from the rest of the gasket. Maybe that was part of my coolant
problem.

I was unable to pass a .005 feeler gauge under a straight edge placed in
various positions on the head, so
I don't plan on having it shaved.

I cleaned up the head and engine block. I absolutely could not scrape the
black stuff off of certain areas. I had to
resort to a "light hand" with a very fine emory cloth. I can still see the
original "mill marks" on the head, so I don't
think that I damaged anything. It would not come off any other way.

Access to the lower screws made it difficult to remove the intake manifold.
Should I install the intake manifold
on the head before the head is installed? Otherwise, I don't see how I can
torque the intake manifold screws
properly. Any advice appreciated.

Which holes in the engine block do I use to rinse out the coolant?

So far so good. Of course, I trashed the edges of my crankshaft pulley
trying to remove it. I picked up one in a
junkyard for $35.

Thanks for help.

Gary Kaucher wrote:
<snip>
>
> I've got everything apart and I have ordered head, intake, and exhaust
> gaskets from www.slhonda.com.
> I noticed that there was some deterioration of the intake manifold gasket in
> the general area of the oval shaped
> orange liner that I'm guessing is some kind of coolant passage. The "orange
> liner" was pitted and easily
> separated from the rest of the gasket. Maybe that was part of my coolant
> problem.

maybe. but unlikely. when you get the new gasket, you'll see that area
is coated in some plasticy stuff and it's probably that stuff sticking
to the metal and pulling apart that make the gasket look the way it does
now.

>
> I was unable to pass a .005 feeler gauge under a straight edge placed in
> various positions on the head,

excellent news.

> so
> I don't plan on having it shaved.
>
> I cleaned up the head and engine block. I absolutely could not scrape the
> black stuff off of certain areas. I had to
> resort to a "light hand" with a very fine emory cloth. I can still see the
> original "mill marks" on the head, so I don't
> think that I damaged anything. It would not come off any other way.

ok. scrub that side of the head with soap and water and one of those
natural bristle scrub brushes. at least twice. then spray with wd40 to
displace the water. no matter how you try, you'll get bits of silicon
carbide powder in the combustion chamber area and these'll get into the
area around the rings. once there, they tend to stay there scraping
away until the car starts burning oil big time. gotta keep that from
happening. not seeing it doesn't mean it's not there!

if you ever wind up doing this job again, and you didn't this time, use
the thick glass block as backing for the wet & dry. it ensures the high
spots [i.e. where there are still bits of gasket] get all the abrasion
and keeps everything flat. a soft block or fingers means all the
surface gets abrasion, not just the high spots.

>
> Access to the lower screws made it difficult to remove the intake manifold.
> Should I install the intake manifold
> on the head before the head is installed? Otherwise, I don't see how I can
> torque the intake manifold screws
> properly. Any advice appreciated.

put the manifold on first. no reason not to.

>
> Which holes in the engine block do I use to rinse out the coolant?

is this closed or open deck? if it's open deck, just hose out the water
channel that'll be wide open for you. if you unscrew the drain plug,
the debris and water will flood out there. drain plug is either on the
front or rear of the block. rear i think for you. 17mm or 19mm head.
22mm [iirc] hole.

if it's closed deck, you should be able to figure out which are the
coolant holes. if not, sell that block to a racer and buy a used jdm
motor to put back in! closed deck honda blocks are rare and collect a
premium from anyone looking to do high power motor rebuilds.

>
> So far so good. Of course, I trashed the edges of my crankshaft pulley
> trying to remove it. I picked up one in a
> junkyard for $35.

does your local dealer rent pulley wheel holders? some of the auto
parts houses do too. it's best to have one so you torque the bolt
correctly on reassembly.

>
> Thanks for help.