replacing timing belt

I have a Passat TDI '00. When I asked the VAG dealer how much he would
charge me for replacing the timing belt the price he gave me was, at
least to my ears, very high. The specification of the price included a
new water pump. When I asked him why, he answered that you always
replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt. Is that true?
Shouldn't the water pump last a lot longer than the timing belt? I've
never done that on my previous car. On that car the original water pump
was replaced after 550 000 km.

/Sven

550 000 km? wow. (i assume you meant 55000 km )

i don't have any experience with tdi's but here is what i know about
that belt and the 20v 1.8T engine.

generally the waterpump is not replaced until it breaks (but vag might
say otherwise). usually the belt is replaced when the pump is being
replaced (you are already in the same place so might as well do it)

the belt itself is usually replaced around every 100 000 km or so or
when it shows signs of wear.

the labor involved with replacing the belt is usually about $100 usd +-
$40 at most service stations (not dealer, but independent mechanic) and
the belt itself is around $30 or so (depends on where you get it)

if you do need to replace the waterpump there are a range of
aftermarket alternatives that are much cheaper than getting it from the
dealer.

doing the work yourself (if you have the tools and place to do it) is
also pretty straightforward. just get a book that walks you through it
(bentley books are the best)

also i recommend asking on http://forums.vwvortex.com in the tdi forum.
there are quite a few guys there that know the engines very well.

Sven Agardh wrote:
> I have a Passat TDI '00. When I asked the VAG dealer how much he
would
> charge me for replacing the timing belt the price he gave me was, at
> least to my ears, very high. The specification of the price included
a
> new water pump. When I asked him why, he answered that you always
> replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt. Is that true?

> Shouldn't the water pump last a lot longer than the timing belt? I've

> never done that on my previous car. On that car the original water
pump
> was replaced after 550 000 km.
>
> /Sven

In order to cut costs the past several years. VW started to install
water pumps that have plastic impeller rather than a metal one. These
plastic impellers routinely crack and fall apart in about 70,000 miles.
That's why it is recommended to replace it with the timing belt since
the pump would be easily accessible then. I think you can purchase an
aftermarket water pump for 1.8T that has a metal impeller. Otherwise
your VW dealer would just put another plastic one in.

Sven Agardh wrote:
> I have a Passat TDI '00. When I asked the VAG dealer how much he would
> charge me for replacing the timing belt the price he gave me was, at
> least to my ears, very high. The specification of the price included a
> new water pump. When I asked him why, he answered that you always
> replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt. Is that true?
> Shouldn't the water pump last a lot longer than the timing belt? I've
> never done that on my previous car. On that car the original water pump
> was replaced after 550 000 km.
>
> /Sven

Be careful whose advice you take on this - I'd listen to folks with TDI
engines only, because different engines are, well, different. On my 89
jetta changing the timing belt is pretty straightforward, and I changed
the waterpump on it because it was cheap and easy to do with the pulleys
off the car. But on my 96 passat vr6 motor, whole different ballgame and
much more difficult.

Sven Agardh wrote:
> I have a Passat TDI '00. When I asked the VAG dealer how much he would
> charge me for replacing the timing belt the price he gave me was, at
> least to my ears, very high. The specification of the price included a
> new water pump. When I asked him why, he answered that you always
> replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt. Is that true?
> Shouldn't the water pump last a lot longer than the timing belt? I've
> never done that on my previous car. On that car the original water pump
> was replaced after 550 000 km.
>
> /Sven



Well, based on your model year I would think this is the type of pump
that is (of course) running off the timing belt, partly built into the
block as opposed to the early style that was running off a 'fan belt' (v
belt) from a second pulley on the crank. Same kind of belts also ran the
Alt, and the P/S-A/C if you had em.

In the old style you could do them separately but in _your_ case the
timing belt needs to be disturbed to replace the water pump so this is
one of those thing where you might as well do them while you are in there.

It's partly a preventative measure and partly a 'pay me now or pay me
later' type thing.


What is the replacement interval for the belt? For the water pump?


TBerk

$100 labour for the timing belt job? My VW dealer and independant mechanic
both said it was a 4 hour job to do a TDI (1.9L in a Golf, 1999.5) timing
belt and tensioner (about 100 bucks per part give or take and $74CND an hour
labour at dealer... didn't goto my mechanic, because he doesn't do TDI oil
changes unless I buy him the oil, he's more of a performance shop, and I
wanted the dealer to check out another issue with my car - the EGR valve was
completely blocked)... The water pump was $140 but the dealer told me since
automatic TDI's need their belts done ever 60K Kms that they won't change
the pumps until the 2nd or 3rd timing belt change, unless the pump looks
bad... My water pump was done at 56K Kms (I have 116K Kms now) so I skipped
it this time (the company that owned my car before me did the maintenance to
a tee it seems, replaced everything the dealer recommended).
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> 550 000 km? wow. (i assume you meant 55000 km )
>
> i don't have any experience with tdi's but here is what i know about
> that belt and the 20v 1.8T engine.
>
> generally the waterpump is not replaced until it breaks (but vag might
> say otherwise). usually the belt is replaced when the pump is being
> replaced (you are already in the same place so might as well do it)
>
> the belt itself is usually replaced around every 100 000 km or so or
> when it shows signs of wear.
>
> the labor involved with replacing the belt is usually about $100 usd +-
> $40 at most service stations (not dealer, but independent mechanic) and
> the belt itself is around $30 or so (depends on where you get it)
>
> if you do need to replace the waterpump there are a range of
> aftermarket alternatives that are much cheaper than getting it from the
> dealer.
>
> doing the work yourself (if you have the tools and place to do it) is
> also pretty straightforward. just get a book that walks you through it
> (bentley books are the best)
>
> also i recommend asking on http://forums.vwvortex.com in the tdi forum.
> there are quite a few guys there that know the engines very well.
>

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, wrote:

>
>the labor involved with replacing the belt is usually about $100 usd +-
>$40 at most service stations (not dealer, but independent mechanic) and
>the belt itself is around $30 or so (depends on where you get it)

I suspect you are thinking of the serpentine belt rather than the
timing belt.

On 13 Jan 2005 07:50:42 -0800, "a701440" > wrote:

>Sven Agardh wrote:

>In order to cut costs the past several years. VW started to install
>water pumps that have plastic impeller rather than a metal one. These
>plastic impellers routinely crack and fall apart in about 70,000 miles.
>That's why it is recommended to replace it with the timing belt since
>the pump would be easily accessible then. I think you can purchase an
>aftermarket water pump for 1.8T that has a metal impeller. Otherwise
>your VW dealer would just put another plastic one in.
>

Cut costs?? Do you have any idea how TINY if any at all that change
would reduce costs?? We are talking a penny per water pump!!!!!

IT is INSANE to think that VW would make such a change for cost
reasons.

rat wrote:

> On 13 Jan 2005 07:50:42 -0800, "a701440" > wrote:
>
>
>>Sven Agardh wrote:
>
>
>>In order to cut costs the past several years. VW started to install
>>water pumps that have plastic impeller rather than a metal one. These
>>plastic impellers routinely crack and fall apart in about 70,000 miles.
>>That's why it is recommended to replace it with the timing belt since
>>the pump would be easily accessible then. I think you can purchase an
>>aftermarket water pump for 1.8T that has a metal impeller. Otherwise
>>your VW dealer would just put another plastic one in.
>>
>
>
> Cut costs?? Do you have any idea how TINY if any at all that change
> would reduce costs?? We are talking a penny per water pump!!!!!
>
> IT is INSANE to think that VW would make such a change for cost
> reasons.
>

Not at all. a penny per car adds up when you are talking VW volumes.

Automotive engineers have been known to make pacts with Beelzebub to
save a nickel a unit.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Replace the pump. If it fails and the belt jumps as much as one tooth you'll be replacing the engine - do you want to spend $140 now
or $5,000 later? TDIs are interference engines due to the high compression required.

You might want to look here as well ... www.tdiclub.com


"Sven Agardh" > wrote in message ...
>I have a Passat TDI '00. When I asked the VAG dealer how much he would charge me for replacing the timing belt the price he gave me
>was, at least to my ears, very high. The specification of the price included a new water pump. When I asked him why, he answered
>that you always replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt. Is that true? Shouldn't the water pump last a lot longer
>than the timing belt? I've never done that on my previous car. On that car the original water pump was replaced after 550 000 km.
>
> /Sven