AX5 Trans Problem

clemdog wrote:
>it sounds more like you might need a clutch.the pieces on shifter pivot are
>worn down bushings. keep it from rattling.if clutch pedal is good see if
>access hole in trans housing allows view of slave cylinder operation as
>pedal is pumped.

While I have the shifter out and the cap plate off, I started it with the
clutch in and then slowly let it out and was able to see the gear oil
whirring around inside. Everything would settle each time I pushed the
clutch in so it seems to be engaging ok. No guarantee that it is perfect,
but it is at least turning the insides of the trans.


--
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On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:04:52 GMT, "Thilder via CarKB.com" <u14359@uwe>
wrote:

> I did notice one thing though
>while looking. The shaft immediately under what looks to be a "rocker arm"
>with a bolt in it - the very first set of teeth that is apart of the shaft
>before the c-ring looks to be missing teeth on the very top. Is that correct?
>It is not smooth as if it were cast without the teeth. It looks almost
>chipped or broken. The gear immediately behind that appears to be in good
>shape. Does any of this make sense?

I've seen situations wherer one gear was destroyed and the mating gear
was without any damage. (Once had a diff where the pinion gear had
*no* teeth left, while the ring gear was still in excellent
condition!) But that is very unusualy.

I'd say, (and this is just a WAG) that there is a serious internal
problem with the transmission. Might be easiest to pull it and tear it
down and see what is up (or down... <g>) with it.

Try draining the oil, see if it (the oil) is clean. Stick a magent
into the drain and see what pulls out, if anything.

I think you are confusing the AX5 with the Puegot BA 10/5 - which was
also to darned light for the 6. My XJ and MJ shop manuals all show
the BA10/5 used with the 4.0 from 84 through mid-90. I know the YJ
also used the Puegot with the 6, not the AX5.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:01:37 UTC TheSnoMan > wrote:

> Greg wrote:
> > I didn't think the AX15 bolted up to the 2.5 L?
>
>
> They used to used them behind 6's too (AX5's) until they switched over
> to AX15 on 6's in the early 90's or so. You may have to tweak the clutch
> linkage/slave cylinder and you may have to replace clutch disc because
> of different spline count but bellhousing engine bolt partern is the
> same between 2.5 and 4.0 because they are both AMC engines and the 2.5
> is based on a 6 cyl block
>
> -----------------
> www.thesnoman.com


--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" wrote:
>I think you are confusing the AX5 with the Puegot BA 10/5 - which was

>also to darned light for the 6. My XJ and MJ shop manuals all show
>the BA10/5 used with the 4.0 from 84 through mid-90. I know the YJ
>also used the Puegot with the 6, not the AX5.
>
>
>
>

I knew about the BA 10/5 but my source also tells me that the AX 5 was
used some too though early 90’s behind some 6’s before the AX15 came
out. Both AX5 and AX15 are built in Japan and the BA 10/5 in france.
The BA 10/5 have the same output splines (21) but different input
splines (AX5 is 1" 14 spline and BA 10/5 is 1 1/8" 10 spline)
Also the AX5 has a 3.93 first gear and a .85 OD while the BA 10/5 has
a 3.39 first gear and a .79 OD, the middle gears are the same. The
AX15 has the same input splines as the BA 10/5 (1 1/8" 10 spline)
but a different output splines (the AX15 has 23 vs 21 on BA 10/5 and
AX5) and first gear is 3.83 and OD is .79. The T5 made by Borg Warner
was also used fore bit in the early to mid 80’s and it has the same
input and output splines as the AX15 with a 4.04 first gear and a .8
OD. (I have data on all of the trannies that Jeep used from about day
one)

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if trans is internally operating then your lack of engagement exists in the
transfer case portion of the drivetrain.be certain lever is in proper
position view operation of lever from under vehicle.worse case is
something broken internally.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:36:50 UTC SnoMan
> wrote:

> "Will Honea" wrote:
> >I think you are confusing the AX5 with the Puegot BA 10/5 - which was
>
> >also to darned light for the 6. My XJ and MJ shop manuals all show
> >the BA10/5 used with the 4.0 from 84 through mid-90. I know the YJ
> >also used the Puegot with the 6, not the AX5.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I knew about the BA 10/5 but my source also tells me that the AX 5 was
> used some too though early 90Æs behind some 6Æs before the AX15 came
> out. Both AX5 and AX15 are built in Japan and the BA 10/5 in france.
> The BA 10/5 have the same output splines (21) but different input
> splines (AX5 is 1" 14 spline and BA 10/5 is 1 1/8" 10 spline)
> Also the AX5 has a 3.93 first gear and a .85 OD while the BA 10/5 has
> a 3.39 first gear and a .79 OD, the middle gears are the same. The
> AX15 has the same input splines as the BA 10/5 (1 1/8" 10 spline)
> but a different output splines (the AX15 has 23 vs 21 on BA 10/5 and
> AX5) and first gear is 3.83 and OD is .79. The T5 made by Borg Warner
> was also used fore bit in the early to mid 80Æs and it has the same
> input and output splines as the AX15 with a 4.04 first gear and a .8
> OD. (I have data on all of the trannies that Jeep used from about day
> one)

I forgot all the exact numbers but those sounds like what I found.
When I went to replace the BA 10/5 in my '88 MJ I looked at the AX5 a
guy had behind one of the puny diesels and found the number changes to
be more than I wanted to handle. Then I learned that there are at
least 2 different gear cuts and 2 bearing styles on the NP231 input
gear in addition to the spline count. Put the wrong gear cut in and
that sucker howls like a banshee but it's really hard to tell the two
apart.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:36:50 UTC SnoMan
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Will Honea" wrote:
>>
>>>I think you are confusing the AX5 with the Puegot BA 10/5 - which was
>>
>>>also to darned light for the 6. My XJ and MJ shop manuals all show
>>>the BA10/5 used with the 4.0 from 84 through mid-90. I know the YJ
>>>also used the Puegot with the 6, not the AX5.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I knew about the BA 10/5 but my source also tells me that the AX 5 was
>>used some too though early 90Æs behind some 6Æs before the AX15 came
>>out. Both AX5 and AX15 are built in Japan and the BA 10/5 in france.
>>The BA 10/5 have the same output splines (21) but different input
>>splines (AX5 is 1" 14 spline and BA 10/5 is 1 1/8" 10 spline)
>>Also the AX5 has a 3.93 first gear and a .85 OD while the BA 10/5 has
>>a 3.39 first gear and a .79 OD, the middle gears are the same. The
>>AX15 has the same input splines as the BA 10/5 (1 1/8" 10 spline)
>>but a different output splines (the AX15 has 23 vs 21 on BA 10/5 and
>>AX5) and first gear is 3.83 and OD is .79. The T5 made by Borg Warner
>>was also used fore bit in the early to mid 80Æs and it has the same
>>input and output splines as the AX15 with a 4.04 first gear and a .8
>>OD. (I have data on all of the trannies that Jeep used from about day
>>one)
>
>
> I forgot all the exact numbers but those sounds like what I found.
> When I went to replace the BA 10/5 in my '88 MJ I looked at the AX5 a
> guy had behind one of the puny diesels and found the number changes to
> be more than I wanted to handle. Then I learned that there are at
> least 2 different gear cuts and 2 bearing styles on the NP231 input
> gear in addition to the spline count. Put the wrong gear cut in and
> that sucker howls like a banshee but it's really hard to tell the two
> apart.
>


Are you talking maybe about the 231 and the 231 HD? The 231 HD has
different bearings and chain too.

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:57:33 UTC TheSnoMan > wrote:

> Will Honea wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:36:50 UTC SnoMan
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Will Honea" wrote:
> >>
> >>>I think you are confusing the AX5 with the Puegot BA 10/5 - which was
> >>
> >>>also to darned light for the 6. My XJ and MJ shop manuals all show
> >>>the BA10/5 used with the 4.0 from 84 through mid-90. I know the YJ
> >>>also used the Puegot with the 6, not the AX5.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>I knew about the BA 10/5 but my source also tells me that the AX 5 was
> >>used some too though early 90Æs behind some 6Æs before the AX15 came
> >>out. Both AX5 and AX15 are built in Japan and the BA 10/5 in france.
> >>The BA 10/5 have the same output splines (21) but different input
> >>splines (AX5 is 1" 14 spline and BA 10/5 is 1 1/8" 10 spline)
> >>Also the AX5 has a 3.93 first gear and a .85 OD while the BA 10/5 has
> >>a 3.39 first gear and a .79 OD, the middle gears are the same. The
> >>AX15 has the same input splines as the BA 10/5 (1 1/8" 10 spline)
> >>but a different output splines (the AX15 has 23 vs 21 on BA 10/5 and
> >>AX5) and first gear is 3.83 and OD is .79. The T5 made by Borg Warner
> >>was also used fore bit in the early to mid 80Æs and it has the same
> >>input and output splines as the AX15 with a 4.04 first gear and a .8
> >>OD. (I have data on all of the trannies that Jeep used from about day
> >>one)
> >
> >
> > I forgot all the exact numbers but those sounds like what I found.
> > When I went to replace the BA 10/5 in my '88 MJ I looked at the AX5 a
> > guy had behind one of the puny diesels and found the number changes to
> > be more than I wanted to handle. Then I learned that there are at
> > least 2 different gear cuts and 2 bearing styles on the NP231 input
> > gear in addition to the spline count. Put the wrong gear cut in and
> > that sucker howls like a banshee but it's really hard to tell the two
> > apart.
> >
>
>
> Are you talking maybe about the 231 and the 231 HD? The 231 HD has
> different bearings and chain too.

No, somewhere in time they made 2 changes to the input gear: modified
gear cut (still mates but not very well) and what the parts book
refers to as High Step and Low Step bearings where the thickness of
the input bearing was decreased. The junk yard I bought the stuff
from actually sent me 4 input shafts and gears to cover the four
possibilities. The bearing style was obvious, but (of course) I
picked the wrong gear cut the first time. Darned if I could tell the
difference but did it ever howl going down the road!

--
Will Honea