AX5 Trans Problem

Folks, I have recently purchased my first Wrangler. It is a 92 4cyl 4wd -
stock. I was able to get it cheap because of a slight issue - it does not go
into gear. My understanding is that it started out not going into 5th gear.
Then, all at once, it would not go into any gear and is currently stuck in
neutral. This is a toy for my first, and do not plan on off roading. What I
would like to do is to repair this as cheaply as possible and move on to some
body work. These are my questions: I have heard that the syncros would
cause it to not go into gear. What other problems could it be. I can "feel"
the clutch engage and disengage when running. I have done many engine
rebuilds in the past amoung other repairs but have always avoided trannys.
Are there other things that I can check prior to dropping it? Can I rebuild
the tranny myself if patient? Once I drop the tranny, how do I tell what the
problem may be or if the syncros are bad? Any input is helpful. Thanks

If by stuck you mean literally jammed in neutral, that's a fairly
common problem. The shift arm jumps out of the track/indents inside
on the shift rails. Pull the shift tower and look inside where the
shifter goes. You'll see notches on the shift rails where the shifter
is supposed to sit. Chances are, one or more has shifted and is
jamming the works. I had a rebuilder tell me that the reverse/fifth
is the worst for jumping the track - he was insistent that I use some
sort of synthetic oil that did not stiffen up in cold weather to avoid
the situation of backing out of the parking spot and not being able to
shift. He walked me thru places to pry on it with a big screwdriver
to pop it back, but I can't describe it any more. It should be
obvious what's out of alignment and not letting the shifter select one
of the side rails.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:47:42 UTC "Thilder via CarKB.com" <u14359@uwe>
wrote:

> Folks, I have recently purchased my first Wrangler. It is a 92 4cyl 4wd -
> stock. I was able to get it cheap because of a slight issue - it does not go
> into gear. My understanding is that it started out not going into 5th gear.
> Then, all at once, it would not go into any gear and is currently stuck in
> neutral. This is a toy for my first, and do not plan on off roading. What I
> would like to do is to repair this as cheaply as possible and move on to some
> body work. These are my questions: I have heard that the syncros would
> cause it to not go into gear. What other problems could it be. I can "feel"
> the clutch engage and disengage when running. I have done many engine
> rebuilds in the past amoung other repairs but have always avoided trannys.
> Are there other things that I can check prior to dropping it? Can I rebuild
> the tranny myself if patient? Once I drop the tranny, how do I tell what the
> problem may be or if the syncros are bad? Any input is helpful. Thanks


--
Will Honea

Will Honea wrote:
> If by stuck you mean literally jammed in neutral, that's a fairly
> common problem. The shift arm jumps out of the track/indents inside
> on the shift rails. Pull the shift tower and look inside where the
> shifter goes. You'll see notches on the shift rails where the shifter
> is supposed to sit. Chances are, one or more has shifted and is
> jamming the works. I had a rebuilder tell me that the reverse/fifth
> is the worst for jumping the track - he was insistent that I use some
> sort of synthetic oil that did not stiffen up in cold weather to avoid
> the situation of backing out of the parking spot and not being able to
> shift. He walked me thru places to pry on it with a big screwdriver
> to pop it back, but I can't describe it any more. It should be
> obvious what's out of alignment and not letting the shifter select one
> of the side rails.
>
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:47:42 UTC "Thilder via CarKB.com" <u14359@uwe>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Folks, I have recently purchased my first Wrangler. It is a 92 4cyl 4wd -
>>stock. I was able to get it cheap because of a slight issue - it does not go
>>into gear. My understanding is that it started out not going into 5th gear.
>>Then, all at once, it would not go into any gear and is currently stuck in
>>neutral. This is a toy for my first, and do not plan on off roading. What I
>>would like to do is to repair this as cheaply as possible and move on to some
>>body work. These are my questions: I have heard that the syncros would
>>cause it to not go into gear. What other problems could it be. I can "feel"
>>the clutch engage and disengage when running. I have done many engine
>>rebuilds in the past amoung other repairs but have always avoided trannys.
>>Are there other things that I can check prior to dropping it? Can I rebuild
>>the tranny myself if patient? Once I drop the tranny, how do I tell what the
>>problem may be or if the syncros are bad? Any input is helpful. Thanks
>
>
>

As long as you use 75w90, Dino or SYN, you should not have any problem.
The AX5 s cinsiders a LD unit though it holds up okay behind the 4cyl.
IF you evet replace it, the heavier duty AX15 used behind bigger engine
will go in without too much fuss and give you a taller OD too.

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

I didn't think the AX15 bolted up to the 2.5 L?


"TheSnoMan" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Will Honea wrote:
>> If by stuck you mean literally jammed in neutral, that's a fairly common
>> problem. The shift arm jumps out of the track/indents inside on the
>> shift rails. Pull the shift tower and look inside where the shifter
>> goes. You'll see notches on the shift rails where the shifter
>> is supposed to sit. Chances are, one or more has shifted and is jamming
>> the works. I had a rebuilder tell me that the reverse/fifth is the worst
>> for jumping the track - he was insistent that I use some sort of
>> synthetic oil that did not stiffen up in cold weather to avoid
>> the situation of backing out of the parking spot and not being able to
>> shift. He walked me thru places to pry on it with a big screwdriver to
>> pop it back, but I can't describe it any more. It should be obvious
>> what's out of alignment and not letting the shifter select one
>> of the side rails.
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:47:42 UTC "Thilder via CarKB.com" <u14359@uwe>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Folks, I have recently purchased my first Wrangler. It is a 92 4cyl
>>>4wd -
>>>stock. I was able to get it cheap because of a slight issue - it does
>>>not go
>>>into gear. My understanding is that it started out not going into 5th
>>>gear.
>>>Then, all at once, it would not go into any gear and is currently stuck
>>>in
>>>neutral. This is a toy for my first, and do not plan on off roading.
>>>What I
>>>would like to do is to repair this as cheaply as possible and move on to
>>>some
>>>body work. These are my questions: I have heard that the syncros would
>>>cause it to not go into gear. What other problems could it be. I can
>>>"feel"
>>>the clutch engage and disengage when running. I have done many engine
>>>rebuilds in the past amoung other repairs but have always avoided
>>>trannys.
>>>Are there other things that I can check prior to dropping it? Can I
>>>rebuild
>>>the tranny myself if patient? Once I drop the tranny, how do I tell what
>>>the
>>>problem may be or if the syncros are bad? Any input is helpful. Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
> As long as you use 75w90, Dino or SYN, you should not have any problem.
> The AX5 s cinsiders a LD unit though it holds up okay behind the 4cyl. IF
> you evet replace it, the heavier duty AX15 used behind bigger engine will
> go in without too much fuss and give you a taller OD too.
>
> -----------------
> www.thesnoman.com

I looked at some of that when I was swapping out a BA 10/5. Bolts up
OK, but the clutch and output spline counts are different. The AX5 is
also considerably shorter than the AX15, so there will be mount and
driveshaft length issues as well. More work than it looks like at
first glance.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:37:02 UTC "Greg" > wrote:

> I didn't think the AX15 bolted up to the 2.5 L?
>
>
> "TheSnoMan" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Will Honea wrote:
> >> If by stuck you mean literally jammed in neutral, that's a fairly common
> >> problem. The shift arm jumps out of the track/indents inside on the
> >> shift rails. Pull the shift tower and look inside where the shifter
> >> goes. You'll see notches on the shift rails where the shifter
> >> is supposed to sit. Chances are, one or more has shifted and is jamming
> >> the works. I had a rebuilder tell me that the reverse/fifth is the worst
> >> for jumping the track - he was insistent that I use some sort of
> >> synthetic oil that did not stiffen up in cold weather to avoid
> >> the situation of backing out of the parking spot and not being able to
> >> shift. He walked me thru places to pry on it with a big screwdriver to
> >> pop it back, but I can't describe it any more. It should be obvious
> >> what's out of alignment and not letting the shifter select one
> >> of the side rails.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:47:42 UTC "Thilder via CarKB.com" <u14359@uwe>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Folks, I have recently purchased my first Wrangler. It is a 92 4cyl
> >>>4wd -
> >>>stock. I was able to get it cheap because of a slight issue - it does
> >>>not go
> >>>into gear. My understanding is that it started out not going into 5th
> >>>gear.
> >>>Then, all at once, it would not go into any gear and is currently stuck
> >>>in
> >>>neutral. This is a toy for my first, and do not plan on off roading.
> >>>What I
> >>>would like to do is to repair this as cheaply as possible and move on to
> >>>some
> >>>body work. These are my questions: I have heard that the syncros would
> >>>cause it to not go into gear. What other problems could it be. I can
> >>>"feel"
> >>>the clutch engage and disengage when running. I have done many engine
> >>>rebuilds in the past amoung other repairs but have always avoided
> >>>trannys.
> >>>Are there other things that I can check prior to dropping it? Can I
> >>>rebuild
> >>>the tranny myself if patient? Once I drop the tranny, how do I tell what
> >>>the
> >>>problem may be or if the syncros are bad? Any input is helpful. Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > As long as you use 75w90, Dino or SYN, you should not have any problem.
> > The AX5 s cinsiders a LD unit though it holds up okay behind the 4cyl. IF
> > you evet replace it, the heavier duty AX15 used behind bigger engine will
> > go in without too much fuss and give you a taller OD too.
> >
> > -----------------
> > www.thesnoman.com
>
>


--
Will Honea

Greg wrote:
> I didn't think the AX15 bolted up to the 2.5 L?


They used to used them behind 6's too (AX5's) until they switched over
to AX15 on 6's in the early 90's or so. You may have to tweak the clutch
linkage/slave cylinder and you may have to replace clutch disc because
of different spline count but bellhousing engine bolt partern is the
same between 2.5 and 4.0 because they are both AMC engines and the 2.5
is based on a 6 cyl block

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

Will Honea wrote:
> I looked at some of that when I was swapping out a BA 10/5. Bolts up
> OK, but the clutch and output spline counts are different. The AX5 is
> also considerably shorter than the AX15, so there will be mount and
> driveshaft length issues as well. More work than it looks like at
> first glance.
>


Given though that these extra needed parts are availble in a bone yard
because it is a production item, it is not that hard to do. I am
actually debating doing it to my wifes 2000 Cherokee (last year they
made one with a 4cyl) for the taller OD gear (.78 vs .86) Also there is
2 or 3 versions of the AX5

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

The shifter isnt jammed rigid in its slot. It does move from side to side in
its "normal" range. While running, I even tried to move the shifter to see
if I could feel or hear a grind and it doesnt go that far into any gear. I
pulled the shifter and the bushing at the end seems fine. I also pulled the
cap plate and took a look inside. The first thing I noticed when pulling the
shifter was small chunks that I thought at first was metal. But they break
apart easily with a fingernail. It appeared to be buildup or "gunk" but
might be a seal or rubber piece? They were caked around the shifter ball.
The inside under the cap looks good and clean. I did notice one thing though
while looking. The shaft immediately under what looks to be a "rocker arm"
with a bolt in it - the very first set of teeth that is apart of the shaft
before the c-ring looks to be missing teeth on the very top. Is that correct?
It is not smooth as if it were cast without the teeth. It looks almost
chipped or broken. The gear immediately behind that appears to be in good
shape. Does any of this make sense?


--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200509/1

Thilder wrote:
> Should have said : The gear immediately IN FRONT of the C - ring appears to be in good
>shape. Does any of this make sense?


--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200509/1

it sounds more like you might need a clutch.the pieces on shifter pivot are
worn down bushings. keep it from rattling.if clutch pedal is good see if
access hole in trans housing allows view of slave cylinder operation as
pedal is pumped.