ping Daniel Stern was Starving 95 Neon

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>> > > (yes
>> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>> >
>> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
>>
>> Did one include a 95 Neon?
>
> A '97.
>
>

Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module, SMEC,
SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had clear
food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's and
SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's.
I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
probably the JTEC version.

SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like this:
open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.

JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To activate
the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then
open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the crank
sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
but is much more realistic in the way it works.

Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
1996-2002

Bill wrote:

> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
>
>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>>>>>(yes
>>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>>
>>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
>>>
>>>Did one include a 95 Neon?
>>
>>A '97.
>>
>>
>
>
> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module, SMEC,
> SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had clear
> food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
> RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
> Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
> flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's and
> SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's.
> I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
> probably the JTEC version.
>
> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like this:
> open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
> with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
> breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
> isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.
>
> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To activate
> the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then
> open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the crank
> sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
> the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
> retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
> but is much more realistic in the way it works.
>
> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
> 1996-2002
>
>

Bill, why did you give up on Chrysler in '02?

Matt

Bill wrote:

> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
>
>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>>>>>(yes
>>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>>
>>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
>>>
>>>Did one include a 95 Neon?
>>
>>A '97.
>>
>>
>
>
> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module, SMEC,
> SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had clear
> food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
> RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
> Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
> flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's and
> SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's.
> I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
> probably the JTEC version.
>
> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like this:
> open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
> with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
> breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
> isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.
>
> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To activate
> the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then
> open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the crank
> sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
> the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
> retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
> but is much more realistic in the way it works.
>
> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
> 1996-2002
>
>

Bill, why did you give up on Chrysler in '02?

Matt

they do have it, my son owns a 95 neon, i have been working on them since
they came out, And no Ford isnt the only one with that design
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
> > > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
(yes
> > > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get
the
> > > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
> > >
> > > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> > > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
> >
> > Did one include a 95 Neon?
>
> A '97.
>
>

they do have it, my son owns a 95 neon, i have been working on them since
they came out, And no Ford isnt the only one with that design
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
> > > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
(yes
> > > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get
the
> > > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
> > >
> > > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> > > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
> >
> > Did one include a 95 Neon?
>
> A '97.
>
>

BILL!!!!! HOW THE HELL ARE YA DOING???
"Bill" > wrote in message news:JHVgd.39653$EZ.1239@okepread07...
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
> > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
> >
> >> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
> >> > > (yes
> >> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite
insistent
> >> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get
the
> >> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
> >> >
> >> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products
made
> >> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
> >>
> >> Did one include a 95 Neon?
> >
> > A '97.
> >
> >
>
> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
SMEC,
> SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had
clear
> food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
> RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
> Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
> flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's
and
> SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and
3's.
> I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
> probably the JTEC version.
>
> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like
this:
> open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
> with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
> breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
> isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.
>
> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To
activate
> the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then

> open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the
crank
> sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
> the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
> retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
> but is much more realistic in the way it works.
>
> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
> 1996-2002
>
>

BILL!!!!! HOW THE HELL ARE YA DOING???
"Bill" > wrote in message news:JHVgd.39653$EZ.1239@okepread07...
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
> > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
> >
> >> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
> >> > > (yes
> >> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite
insistent
> >> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get
the
> >> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
> >> >
> >> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products
made
> >> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
> >>
> >> Did one include a 95 Neon?
> >
> > A '97.
> >
> >
>
> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
SMEC,
> SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had
clear
> food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
> RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
> Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
> flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's
and
> SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and
3's.
> I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
> probably the JTEC version.
>
> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like
this:
> open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
> with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
> breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
> isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.
>
> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To
activate
> the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then

> open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the
crank
> sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
> the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
> retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
> but is much more realistic in the way it works.
>
> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
> 1996-2002
>
>

Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time to
go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love teaching,
but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment of Volvo AB.
I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer a
bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

Bill

And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
was for newbies

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
>> n.umich.edu...
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>>>>>>(yes
>>>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
>>>>
>>>>Did one include a 95 Neon?
>>>
>>>A '97.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>> through 2001 and RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product
>> got JTEC (Jeep/Truck Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and
>> JTEC+'s also have a clear flood mode, it just works a little different
>> form the others. The JTEC's and SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next
>> Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's. I haven't looked at those closely,
>> but I bet they have it in some form, probably the JTEC version.
>>
>> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like
>> this: open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is
>> opened with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until
>> the RPM breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If
>> the engine isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start
>> condition.
>>
>> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To
>> activate the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the
>> engine and then open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM
>> input from the crank sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the
>> crank RPM doesn't get to the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking
>> pulsewidth will start retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is
>> extremely hard to demonstrate, but is much more realistic in the way it
>> works.
>>
>> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
>> 1996-2002
>
> Bill, why did you give up on Chrysler in '02?
>
> Matt
>

Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time to
go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love teaching,
but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment of Volvo AB.
I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer a
bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

Bill

And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
was for newbies

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
>> n.umich.edu...
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>>>>>>(yes
>>>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.
>>>>
>>>>Did one include a 95 Neon?
>>>
>>>A '97.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>> through 2001 and RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product
>> got JTEC (Jeep/Truck Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and
>> JTEC+'s also have a clear flood mode, it just works a little different
>> form the others. The JTEC's and SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next
>> Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's. I haven't looked at those closely,
>> but I bet they have it in some form, probably the JTEC version.
>>
>> SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like
>> this: open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is
>> opened with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until
>> the RPM breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If
>> the engine isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start
>> condition.
>>
>> JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To
>> activate the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the
>> engine and then open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM
>> input from the crank sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the
>> crank RPM doesn't get to the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking
>> pulsewidth will start retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is
>> extremely hard to demonstrate, but is much more realistic in the way it
>> works.
>>
>> Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
>> 1996-2002
>
> Bill, why did you give up on Chrysler in '02?
>
> Matt
>

Bill wrote:

> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time to
> go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love teaching,
> but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment of Volvo AB.
> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer a
> bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

I was just curious.


> Bill
>
> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
> was for newbies

Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
should be good learners also! :-)

Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of
ARPAnet, it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read
from the top down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the
direction we read. I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't
figure this out.


Matt