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Light bulb question -- Daniel Stern?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 1st 04, 02:45 PM
Richard
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> wrote in message
...
> Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
> Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
> improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
> it's only an illusion that they are brighter?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:09:32 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Shep wrote:
>>
>>> Amen on the short lived Silstar, went thru a set in 7 months on my chev.
>>> trailblazer, bitched to them, got another set on warranty, 7 months
>>> later,
>>> one right after another. It's a shame because they were good, and the
>>> stockers stink.

>>
>>The Sylvania Silverstars make your headlamps put out *less* light. The
>>impression you got that they're "brighter" is nothing more than an optical
>>illusion.
>>
>>So no, it's not a shame.

>

They start out putting out more light (this is why they don't last too
long), but then Sylvania puts a coating on the bulb to make it look a bit
blue. This may make you think it "looks" brighter, but tests confirm that
the coating significantly reduces the bulbs output. Some coatings (most
coatings) cut light output in half. "Believe it or don't".

Richard.


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  #22  
Old November 1st 04, 03:45 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Jim wrote:

> Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks to
> remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..


Yeah...if you're having to buff them every few weeks, it's time for new
headlamps. What initially hazes over is the hardcoat on the lens. When you
polish that away, the polycarbonate lens is no longer protected from UV
and abrasives, and the haze comes back faster and worse every time. (Here
all this time you thought you owned a Chrysler; turns out you've got a
cataract!)


> > There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
> > enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
> > road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
> > useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.

>
> Lets hear it for Oscar the Super?.. I considered them before I
> realized that they would require the 'saws-all' install method.


Yep, that's the one.

> Appreciate the answers.. one more question. At what voltage drop do
> you consider re-wiring the headlight circuit?..


Well, remember, light output drops exponentially, not linearly, with
voltage drop. Small voltage drops = large light losses. The formula for
determining the change in light output with a change in voltage is:

lumens @old volts x [(new volts /old volts) ^3.4] = lumens @new volts

So for simplicity's sake, let's take a 9007 low beam rated 1000 lumens at
12.8 Volts and plug in different voltages:

10.5V : 510 lumens
11.0V : 597 lumens
11.5V : 695 lumens
12.0V : 803 lumens
12.5V : 923 lumens
12.8V : 1000 lumens <--Rated output voltage
13.0V : 1054 lumens
13.5V : 1198 lumens
14.0V : 1356 lumens <--Rated life voltage
14.5V : 1528 lumens


Voltage drop test conditions:

ALL headlamps connected - you may have to backprobe the sockets, but
removing the socket from the headlamp invalidates the test.

Engine off, circuit to be tested (low or high beam) energized

First, connect your voltmeter across the battery + and - terminals. Record
the voltage reading, this is the battery voltage.

Connect your voltmeter positive lead to the battery (+) and the voltmeter
negative lead to the + terminal of whichever headlamp beam you're testing
-- use the bulb farthest away from the battery. With the lamps on, your
voltmeter will give a direct reading of the voltage drop. Write it down.

Then connect the positive voltmeter lead to the ground terminal of the
headlamp bulb, and the negative voltmeter lead to the (-) terminal of the
battery. With the lamps on, your voltmeter will again give a direct
reading of the voltage drop. Write it down.

Add the two voltage drop figures obtained, and this is the total circuit
drop.

Subtract the total circuit drop from the battery voltage to find the
voltage at which your bulbs are operating.

DS

  #23  
Old November 1st 04, 03:45 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Jim wrote:

> Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks to
> remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..


Yeah...if you're having to buff them every few weeks, it's time for new
headlamps. What initially hazes over is the hardcoat on the lens. When you
polish that away, the polycarbonate lens is no longer protected from UV
and abrasives, and the haze comes back faster and worse every time. (Here
all this time you thought you owned a Chrysler; turns out you've got a
cataract!)


> > There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
> > enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
> > road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
> > useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.

>
> Lets hear it for Oscar the Super?.. I considered them before I
> realized that they would require the 'saws-all' install method.


Yep, that's the one.

> Appreciate the answers.. one more question. At what voltage drop do
> you consider re-wiring the headlight circuit?..


Well, remember, light output drops exponentially, not linearly, with
voltage drop. Small voltage drops = large light losses. The formula for
determining the change in light output with a change in voltage is:

lumens @old volts x [(new volts /old volts) ^3.4] = lumens @new volts

So for simplicity's sake, let's take a 9007 low beam rated 1000 lumens at
12.8 Volts and plug in different voltages:

10.5V : 510 lumens
11.0V : 597 lumens
11.5V : 695 lumens
12.0V : 803 lumens
12.5V : 923 lumens
12.8V : 1000 lumens <--Rated output voltage
13.0V : 1054 lumens
13.5V : 1198 lumens
14.0V : 1356 lumens <--Rated life voltage
14.5V : 1528 lumens


Voltage drop test conditions:

ALL headlamps connected - you may have to backprobe the sockets, but
removing the socket from the headlamp invalidates the test.

Engine off, circuit to be tested (low or high beam) energized

First, connect your voltmeter across the battery + and - terminals. Record
the voltage reading, this is the battery voltage.

Connect your voltmeter positive lead to the battery (+) and the voltmeter
negative lead to the + terminal of whichever headlamp beam you're testing
-- use the bulb farthest away from the battery. With the lamps on, your
voltmeter will give a direct reading of the voltage drop. Write it down.

Then connect the positive voltmeter lead to the ground terminal of the
headlamp bulb, and the negative voltmeter lead to the (-) terminal of the
battery. With the lamps on, your voltmeter will again give a direct
reading of the voltage drop. Write it down.

Add the two voltage drop figures obtained, and this is the total circuit
drop.

Subtract the total circuit drop from the battery voltage to find the
voltage at which your bulbs are operating.

DS

  #24  
Old November 1st 04, 03:57 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, it was written:

> > Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
> > Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
> > improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
> > it's only an illusion that they are brighter?


> They start out putting out more light (this is why they don't last too
> long), but then Sylvania puts a coating on the bulb to make it look a bit
> blue. This may make you think it "looks" brighter, but tests confirm that
> the coating significantly reduces the bulbs output. Some coatings (most
> coatings) cut light output in half. "Believe it or don't".


Exactly. This "Definitely a big improvement!" stuff is nothing more than
the Slick-50 effect. ("Of course I can see better! No, really, I can, it's
a vast improvement! Huge! Whaddya mean it's an illusion? Shut up, it is
not! I just spent $45 on these light bulbs; of COURSE I can see better!")
  #25  
Old November 1st 04, 03:57 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, it was written:

> > Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
> > Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
> > improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
> > it's only an illusion that they are brighter?


> They start out putting out more light (this is why they don't last too
> long), but then Sylvania puts a coating on the bulb to make it look a bit
> blue. This may make you think it "looks" brighter, but tests confirm that
> the coating significantly reduces the bulbs output. Some coatings (most
> coatings) cut light output in half. "Believe it or don't".


Exactly. This "Definitely a big improvement!" stuff is nothing more than
the Slick-50 effect. ("Of course I can see better! No, really, I can, it's
a vast improvement! Huge! Whaddya mean it's an illusion? Shut up, it is
not! I just spent $45 on these light bulbs; of COURSE I can see better!")
  #28  
Old November 1st 04, 04:33 PM
Nate Nagel
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Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Jim wrote:
>
>
>>Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks to
>>remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..

>
>
> Yeah...if you're having to buff them every few weeks, it's time for new
> headlamps. What initially hazes over is the hardcoat on the lens. When you
> polish that away, the polycarbonate lens is no longer protected from UV
> and abrasives, and the haze comes back faster and worse every time. (Here
> all this time you thought you owned a Chrysler; turns out you've got a
> cataract!)


This seems to be such a common problem, is there any way to restore the
UV protective coating once you've got the lenses buffed up? Bribe you
local eyeglass emporium?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #29  
Old November 1st 04, 04:33 PM
Nate Nagel
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Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Jim wrote:
>
>
>>Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks to
>>remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..

>
>
> Yeah...if you're having to buff them every few weeks, it's time for new
> headlamps. What initially hazes over is the hardcoat on the lens. When you
> polish that away, the polycarbonate lens is no longer protected from UV
> and abrasives, and the haze comes back faster and worse every time. (Here
> all this time you thought you owned a Chrysler; turns out you've got a
> cataract!)


This seems to be such a common problem, is there any way to restore the
UV protective coating once you've got the lenses buffed up? Bribe you
local eyeglass emporium?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #30  
Old November 1st 04, 05:01 PM
Joe Pfeiffer
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Daniel J. Stern" > writes:

> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, it was written:
>
> > > Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
> > > Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
> > > improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
> > > it's only an illusion that they are brighter?

>
> > They start out putting out more light (this is why they don't last too
> > long), but then Sylvania puts a coating on the bulb to make it look a bit
> > blue. This may make you think it "looks" brighter, but tests confirm that
> > the coating significantly reduces the bulbs output. Some coatings (most
> > coatings) cut light output in half. "Believe it or don't".

>
> Exactly. This "Definitely a big improvement!" stuff is nothing more than
> the Slick-50 effect. ("Of course I can see better! No, really, I can, it's
> a vast improvement! Huge! Whaddya mean it's an illusion? Shut up, it is
> not! I just spent $45 on these light bulbs; of COURSE I can see better!")


There's likely to be more going on than the Slick-50 effect: first,
our eyes are really good at seeing at various light levels; that's why
learning to take pictures with manually-operated cameras requires some
learning. We can easily be fooled into thinking things that are much
brighter are actually dimmer and vice versa.

Quick digression: for last year's State Science Fair, one of the
competitors studied the effects of tinted shooting glasses on
accuracy. He had a dozen or so participants, ranging from people
who'd never fired a pistol before to a member of the Albuqurque SWAT
team. *Everybody* was convince that they saw the target more clearly
with yellow tinted lenses. *Nobody* actually shot better with yellow
lenses, and most shot better with clear lenses. Moral: everything
you think you know about how well you see, and under what conditions,
is wrong.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the Silverstar lights have a
narrower spectrum than stock or Xtravision (which is what I would
expect, since I'm under the impression that they're just a standard
halogen bulb with a blue filter), and that this provides the illusion
of greater brightness and visibility. That and the Slick-50 Effect,
of course.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
 




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