A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Chrysler
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old October 29th 04, 03:50 AM
RPhillips47
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Silver Surfer" wrote:

>Maybe I'm dense or something, but how can the in-tank fuel pump be blamed
>for these two incidents?


You obviously aren't too familiar with the blathering drivel that this jerk
posts in here too often, are you?
Ads
  #22  
Old October 29th 04, 03:50 AM
RPhillips47
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Silver Surfer" wrote:

>Maybe I'm dense or something, but how can the in-tank fuel pump be blamed
>for these two incidents?


You obviously aren't too familiar with the blathering drivel that this jerk
posts in here too often, are you?
  #23  
Old October 29th 04, 04:09 AM
Wound Up
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I believe this trollishly crossposted nonsense... wait for it...
was intended to IGNITE FLAMES!

OHHH... (groan)... but what's worse is that it seems to have worked.

Nomen Nescio? Scandanavian Networks?

"NN - eller Nomen Nescio - er Nordiskt Netværk for navnegenkendelse.

NN or Nomen Nescio is Scandinavian Networks by navnegenkendelse."

<http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?url=http%3A%2F%2F&type=text&text=+NN+-+eller+Nomen+Nescio+-+er+Nordiskt+Netv%E6rk+for+navnegenkendelse.&from= dan&to=eng>

Alright... I'm still working on the translation, but I think I'm close...

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
> fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
> result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
> placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
> these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
> address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
> amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
> configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
> manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
> cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
> least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
> mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
> will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
> hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
> titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.
>
> News Story One:
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT
>
> Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death
>
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
> out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
> fumes, investigators said.
>
> David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
> more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
> examiner's office said.
>
> Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
> truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
> the truck out of a detached garage.
>
> All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
> collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.
>
> News Story Two:
>
> Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
> By Virgil Cochran
> Lamar Daily News
>
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 -
>
>
> Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
> midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
> will be up and running again in just a few days.
>
> Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
> began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
> the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
> electrical short, which triggered the blaze.
>
> It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
> get out safely, Travis said.
>
> Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
> week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
> the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
> customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
> the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
> are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.
>
> Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
> its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
> of the business are up and running.
>
> Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
> was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
> the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
> damage.
>
> Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
> the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
> Holly Fire Departments.
>
> As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
> that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.
>
>


  #24  
Old October 29th 04, 04:09 AM
Wound Up
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I believe this trollishly crossposted nonsense... wait for it...
was intended to IGNITE FLAMES!

OHHH... (groan)... but what's worse is that it seems to have worked.

Nomen Nescio? Scandanavian Networks?

"NN - eller Nomen Nescio - er Nordiskt Netværk for navnegenkendelse.

NN or Nomen Nescio is Scandinavian Networks by navnegenkendelse."

<http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?url=http%3A%2F%2F&type=text&text=+NN+-+eller+Nomen+Nescio+-+er+Nordiskt+Netv%E6rk+for+navnegenkendelse.&from= dan&to=eng>

Alright... I'm still working on the translation, but I think I'm close...

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
> fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
> result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
> placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
> these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
> address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
> amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
> configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
> manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
> cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
> least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
> mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
> will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
> hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
> titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.
>
> News Story One:
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT
>
> Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death
>
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
> out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
> fumes, investigators said.
>
> David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
> more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
> examiner's office said.
>
> Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
> truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
> the truck out of a detached garage.
>
> All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
> collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.
>
> News Story Two:
>
> Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
> By Virgil Cochran
> Lamar Daily News
>
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 -
>
>
> Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
> midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
> will be up and running again in just a few days.
>
> Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
> began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
> the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
> electrical short, which triggered the blaze.
>
> It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
> get out safely, Travis said.
>
> Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
> week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
> the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
> customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
> the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
> are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.
>
> Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
> its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
> of the business are up and running.
>
> Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
> was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
> the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
> damage.
>
> Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
> the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
> Holly Fire Departments.
>
> As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
> that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.
>
>


  #25  
Old October 29th 04, 04:28 AM
Alex Rodriguez
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You can't legislate against stupidity. If you follow some basic safey
precautions there is very little danger. I'm not a professional mechanic
and I have changed out 3 in tank fuel pumps with no problems. This is as
stupid as the folks trying to blame Honda for fires caused by mechanics who
didn't check for the old filters gasket when doing an oil change.
----------------
Alex

  #26  
Old October 29th 04, 04:28 AM
Alex Rodriguez
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You can't legislate against stupidity. If you follow some basic safey
precautions there is very little danger. I'm not a professional mechanic
and I have changed out 3 in tank fuel pumps with no problems. This is as
stupid as the folks trying to blame Honda for fires caused by mechanics who
didn't check for the old filters gasket when doing an oil change.
----------------
Alex

  #29  
Old October 29th 04, 05:59 AM
Wound Up
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

An educated guess - adding to your clearly educated response - no
sarcasm, so don't get ****ed...

Also, this type of integration is used secondarily, but not
insignificantly, to increase book-billed labor charges and replacement
costs on all related parts and diagnostic procedures. Under warranty,
this isn't usually a big deal, because the factory-trained techs are
specifically trained in the "is/is not" questions that arise, and how to
test for them. Off warranty, or at the local shop, properly trained
techs use this to their advantage like many other things, simply billing
"book time" that doesn't reflect reality, relying on the customer's
ignorance.

While replacing a heater core, and heater hoses while they were at it,
which I completely agreed with, a shop tried to bill me $120 in labor to
change the thermostat. I told them to put it back together, fill it,
and then expect legal trouble, or to do it as part of the job, and just
bill me for the part. Knowing I'd caught them in a lie in January,
while I was at work downtown when it was zero degrees outside, they shut
up and acquiesced, albeit begrudingly. I laughed, and asked repeatedly
why I could do something in 10 min., by itself, that would take them 1.5
hours with everything already aparts. They had no answer. I had the
facts, prices and diagrams right in front of me as well. It wasn't
worth it to them. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a businessman. It was all
about cost / benefit in this case. I never have gone back to them (a
major repair franchise, I might add).

In their defense, shops use book time out of necessity sometimes,
because of a lack of local knowledge. In their attack, shops and techs
use book time to make money on flat-rate labor. Techs and shops alike
continually look for common, high-book-time gems with which to bilk
their customers and reap profits.

Sadly, few people have time to, care to, or can, feasibly, dig into
these problems themselves, which is why this system has proven so
successful.

The saddest and most uncertain factor in these equations is the newbie
tech who just invested $50,000 in his or her education and tools to work
on new cars. Too many fail or quit, and most are underpaid for their
valuable work. Others succeed, and either become vampires themselves,
or are good enough (morally and skill-wise) to turn an honest, good
profit and NOT screw consumers with (on average) 100% markups on parts
and book-billed labor.

Ok, so many of you know all of this, and are saying "so what". I'm just
throwing this out there on my own time, having seen both sides, and I'm
just trying to share experience...

FWIW... a little homework goes a long way, if not done anywhere but from
Google and a $20 repair manual...

Bill Putney wrote:
> Al Smith wrote:
>
>
>> By the way, little-old me - a mechanical engineer - really doesn't
>> understand
>> why the pumps were stuck in the tank. I believe "Click and Clack"
>> aka Tom and Ray Maliozzi MIT graduates and hosts of Car Talk once,
>> as I recall, said they were not sure why the pumps were stuck in the
>> tank.

>
>
> Simple: To increase integration and reduce costs. The auto mfgrs.
> prefer to buy fewer total assemblies from suppliers to cut down on costs
> such as separate handling, installation, shipping, purchase contracts,
> parallel paper trails, tracking systems, project managers, installation
> effort, etc. By putting the fuel pump with the "sending" unit, the fuel
> pump and gage sender (and, in the case of the LH cars, the fuel filter)
> get incorporated into one purchased "part".
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
> Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


  #30  
Old October 29th 04, 05:59 AM
Wound Up
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

An educated guess - adding to your clearly educated response - no
sarcasm, so don't get ****ed...

Also, this type of integration is used secondarily, but not
insignificantly, to increase book-billed labor charges and replacement
costs on all related parts and diagnostic procedures. Under warranty,
this isn't usually a big deal, because the factory-trained techs are
specifically trained in the "is/is not" questions that arise, and how to
test for them. Off warranty, or at the local shop, properly trained
techs use this to their advantage like many other things, simply billing
"book time" that doesn't reflect reality, relying on the customer's
ignorance.

While replacing a heater core, and heater hoses while they were at it,
which I completely agreed with, a shop tried to bill me $120 in labor to
change the thermostat. I told them to put it back together, fill it,
and then expect legal trouble, or to do it as part of the job, and just
bill me for the part. Knowing I'd caught them in a lie in January,
while I was at work downtown when it was zero degrees outside, they shut
up and acquiesced, albeit begrudingly. I laughed, and asked repeatedly
why I could do something in 10 min., by itself, that would take them 1.5
hours with everything already aparts. They had no answer. I had the
facts, prices and diagrams right in front of me as well. It wasn't
worth it to them. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a businessman. It was all
about cost / benefit in this case. I never have gone back to them (a
major repair franchise, I might add).

In their defense, shops use book time out of necessity sometimes,
because of a lack of local knowledge. In their attack, shops and techs
use book time to make money on flat-rate labor. Techs and shops alike
continually look for common, high-book-time gems with which to bilk
their customers and reap profits.

Sadly, few people have time to, care to, or can, feasibly, dig into
these problems themselves, which is why this system has proven so
successful.

The saddest and most uncertain factor in these equations is the newbie
tech who just invested $50,000 in his or her education and tools to work
on new cars. Too many fail or quit, and most are underpaid for their
valuable work. Others succeed, and either become vampires themselves,
or are good enough (morally and skill-wise) to turn an honest, good
profit and NOT screw consumers with (on average) 100% markups on parts
and book-billed labor.

Ok, so many of you know all of this, and are saying "so what". I'm just
throwing this out there on my own time, having seen both sides, and I'm
just trying to share experience...

FWIW... a little homework goes a long way, if not done anywhere but from
Google and a $20 repair manual...

Bill Putney wrote:
> Al Smith wrote:
>
>
>> By the way, little-old me - a mechanical engineer - really doesn't
>> understand
>> why the pumps were stuck in the tank. I believe "Click and Clack"
>> aka Tom and Ray Maliozzi MIT graduates and hosts of Car Talk once,
>> as I recall, said they were not sure why the pumps were stuck in the
>> tank.

>
>
> Simple: To increase integration and reduce costs. The auto mfgrs.
> prefer to buy fewer total assemblies from suppliers to cut down on costs
> such as separate handling, installation, shipping, purchase contracts,
> parallel paper trails, tracking systems, project managers, installation
> effort, etc. By putting the fuel pump with the "sending" unit, the fuel
> pump and gage sender (and, in the case of the LH cars, the fuel filter)
> get incorporated into one purchased "part".
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
> Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.