E39 six cylinder car question

Hi,
I'm thinking about an E39 528i or 530i with manual and sport suspension and
have a few questions:

1. did all E39 six cylinder cars come with rack & pinion steering?
2. I know the 2001-03 530i is the "preferred" model, but how close in
performance is the 528i?
3. anything I should be looking out for?

Thanks!

bfd wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm thinking about an E39 528i or 530i with manual and sport suspension and
> have a few questions:

Also the 525i

> 1. did all E39 six cylinder cars come with rack & pinion steering?

Yes

> 2. I know the 2001-03 530i is the "preferred" model, but how close in
> performance is the 528i?

You can feel the extra power of the 530i - but the 528i has adequate
power and acceleration. For that matter - the 525i does also.

If your finances allow it - look for the 2001 and newer models. There
were several minor improvements and more "standard" equipment on these
models in the US. The "sport" package is quite nice if you can find one.

The later model 525i and 530i come with a 5 speed automatic transmission
which is an improvement in both performance and smoothness over the
original GM-Strausburg 4 speed that was fitted to the 528i.

> 3. anything I should be looking out for?

One you like at a price you can afford? They have very few "weak"
spots. You may want to try some higher speed cruising in any used ones
you're considering. As with ALL 5 series from BMW - if the front end
starts getting loose (a factor more of the roads it's driven on than age
or mileage) - you'll get a vibration in it at 60-80MPH. It is fairly
easy to fix (replace the worn components), but not "cheap" to fix.

> Thanks!

HTH

"bfd" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> I'm thinking about an E39 528i or 530i with manual and sport suspension
> and have a few questions:
>
> 1. did all E39 six cylinder cars come with rack & pinion steering?

Yes

> 2. I know the 2001-03 530i is the "preferred" model, but how close in
> performance is the 528i?

Close. mid range grunt is superior in the 3.0 liter.

> 3. anything I should be looking out for?

A few well-documented annoyances. (Display pixels, door seal creaks, seat
back clicks). The only six reliability issue would be the early 530's aux
fan relay ... make sure it's been replaced. Sometimes individual ignition
coils fail ... easy to replace, but a bit expensive for a stinking coil.

Later cars are more apt to have the high-OBC (more computer functions and
"check display" versus graphics ... you pay more and you get "door ajar"
instead of a graphic description of which door it actually is!) ... not sure
its worth it, just more pixels to fail.

Don't pay a premium for the DSP radio. It wasn't a significant improve over
standard for $1200 increase in sticker price.

Xenon low beams are very desirable.

I'd recommend the sport package unless you live in pothole central.

There are four seat options: standard, standard with lumbar, sport seats
(lumbar not available, but perhaps DIY installable), and comfort seats.
Sport seats are a love 'em or hate 'em proposition ... they either fit your
body or they don't. Comfort seats (fairly rare) never get complaints.

I'd try and find a car in which the owner went above and beyond standard
maintenance. A 525/530 can go over 17,000 miles before the oil service
light comes on. That's too long IMO. I'd also steer clear of a high
mileage car that never had the trans fluid changed (particularly an
automatic). "Lifetime fill" my ass! I've read several tech articles that
note that BMW service requirements suddenly doubled after "free" maintenance
programs were initiated. I think an owner that adheres to the stricter,
pre-free-maintenance schedule for maintenance and fluid changes might be
selling a superior car. Certainly one that has the deck stacked in the
favor of a long service life.

R / John

In article >,
John Carrier > wrote:
> A few well-documented annoyances. (Display pixels, door seal creaks,
> seat back clicks). The only six reliability issue would be the early
> 530's aux fan relay ... make sure it's been replaced.

IMHO, the aux fan is far more likely to be faulty. Check by switching on
the AC - unless the outside temp is so low the AC won't cut in, the fan
should run all the time.

> Sometimes individual ignition coils fail ... easy to replace, but a bit
> expensive for a stinking coil.

> Later cars are more apt to have the high-OBC (more computer functions
> and "check display" versus graphics ... you pay more and you get "door
> ajar" instead of a graphic description of which door it actually is!)
> ... not sure its worth it, just more pixels to fail.

No pixels on that graphic.

> Don't pay a premium for the DSP radio. It wasn't a significant improve
> over standard for $1200 increase in sticker price.

> Xenon low beams are very desirable.

> I'd recommend the sport package unless you live in pothole central.

> There are four seat options: standard, standard with lumbar, sport
> seats (lumbar not available, but perhaps DIY installable), and comfort
> seats. Sport seats are a love 'em or hate 'em proposition ... they
> either fit your body or they don't. Comfort seats (fairly rare) never
> get complaints.

Seats without lumbar support I find most uncomfortable - and inexcusable
on a car of this type.

> I'd try and find a car in which the owner went above and beyond standard
> maintenance. A 525/530 can go over 17,000 miles before the oil
> service light comes on. That's too long IMO.

So you know more than the makers? It might also indicate an oil change at
7000 miles. Is that better? Oh - and do you know of any E39 with a worn
out engine through sticking to the maker's oil change intervals? And what
was the mileage?

> I'd also steer clear of
> a high mileage car that never had the trans fluid changed (particularly
> an automatic). "Lifetime fill" my ass! I've read several tech
> articles that note that BMW service requirements suddenly doubled after
> "free" maintenance programs were initiated. I think an owner that
> adheres to the stricter, pre-free-maintenance schedule for maintenance
> and fluid changes might be selling a superior car. Certainly one that
> has the deck stacked in the favor of a long service life.

I'd love to see your evidence. As there's no free maintenance in other
countries.

By all means waste your money on changing fluids as often as you feel. But
let's have hard facts here, rather than religion.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> John Carrier > wrote:
>> I'd also steer clear of
>> a high mileage car that never had the trans fluid changed (particularly
>> an automatic). "Lifetime fill" my ass! I've read several tech
>> articles that note that BMW service requirements suddenly doubled after
>> "free" maintenance programs were initiated. I think an owner that
>> adheres to the stricter, pre-free-maintenance schedule for maintenance
>> and fluid changes might be selling a superior car. Certainly one that
>> has the deck stacked in the favor of a long service life.
>
> I'd love to see your evidence. As there's no free maintenance in other
> countries.
>
> By all means waste your money on changing fluids as often as you feel. But
> let's have hard facts here, rather than religion.
>
Thanks for everyone advice. However, I too agree that fluids should be
changed on a "regular" basis. I think it was the Roundel's "tech talk"
section (Mike Miller?) that stated "BMW service requirements suddenly
doubled after "free" maintenance programs were initiated"

Think of it this way, BMW use to recommend tranny and differential fluid be
changed every 30,000 miles, coolant every 2 years and brake fluid every two
years; unless you tracked the car, then its every year. With its new "free"
maintenance program, its either double or lifetime. The funny thing is the
fluids are the SAME both before and after the institution of the "free"
maintenance program. That tells me, the change was to save money for BMW,
not the consumer. Let's face it, BMW wants its car to be good up to 100,000
miles, then after that, they want you to buy a new one. For cheap guys, like
me, 100,000 miles is just *breaking-in*. Additional maintenance, if you
want to call the old service intervals that, is good insurance, especially
for those of us who keep our cars longer than the 100,000 mile mark....

In article >,
bfd > wrote:
> Think of it this way, BMW use to recommend tranny and differential fluid
> be changed every 30,000 miles, coolant every 2 years and brake fluid
> every two years;
They still need coolant and brake fluid changes.

But the oils - both engine and transmission - are new types.

> unless you tracked the car, then its every year. With
> its new "free" maintenance program, its either double or lifetime. The
> funny thing is the fluids are the SAME both before and after the
> institution of the "free" maintenance program.

Evidence of this? I dunno about the time the US got free maintenance, but
in the UK where it wasn't, the engine oil change intervals near doubled
with the change to fully synthetic oil. As you'd expect if you read lab
reports about how it lasts.

> That tells me, the change was to save money for BMW, not the consumer.
> Let's face it, BMW wants its car to be good up to 100,000 miles, then
> after that, they want you to buy a new one. For cheap guys, like me,
> 100,000 miles is just *breaking-in*. Additional maintenance, if you
> want to call the old service intervals that, is good insurance,
> especially for those of us who keep our cars longer than the 100,000
> mile mark....

In the UK, most BMW new buyers change their cars *well* before 100,000
miles. Here, you'll never see a secondhand car at a main dealer with
anything near that mileage. 50,000 is more like the maximum. High mileage
trade ins go either to auction or to a local 'specialist' dealer - no
matter how good they are condition wise.

--
*Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some snipping

>> Later cars are more apt to have the high-OBC (more computer functions
>> and "check display" versus graphics ... you pay more and you get "door
>> ajar" instead of a graphic description of which door it actually is!)
>> ... not sure its worth it, just more pixels to fail.
>
> No pixels on that graphic.

But pixels on the trip mileage, outside air temp, etc.

>> Don't pay a premium for the DSP radio. It wasn't a significant improve
>> over standard for $1200 increase in sticker price.
>
>> Xenon low beams are very desirable.
>
>> I'd recommend the sport package unless you live in pothole central.
>
>> There are four seat options: standard, standard with lumbar, sport
>> seats (lumbar not available, but perhaps DIY installable), and comfort
>> seats. Sport seats are a love 'em or hate 'em proposition ... they
>> either fit your body or they don't. Comfort seats (fairly rare) never
>> get complaints.
>
> Seats without lumbar support I find most uncomfortable - and inexcusable
> on a car of this type.
>
>> I'd try and find a car in which the owner went above and beyond standard
>> maintenance. A 525/530 can go over 17,000 miles before the oil
>> service light comes on. That's too long IMO.
>
> So you know more than the makers? It might also indicate an oil change at
> 7000 miles. Is that better? Oh - and do you know of any E39 with a worn
> out engine through sticking to the maker's oil change intervals? And what
> was the mileage?

>> I'd also steer clear of
>> a high mileage car that never had the trans fluid changed (particularly
>> an automatic). "Lifetime fill" my ass! I've read several tech
>> articles that note that BMW service requirements suddenly doubled after
>> "free" maintenance programs were initiated. I think an owner that
>> adheres to the stricter, pre-free-maintenance schedule for maintenance
>> and fluid changes might be selling a superior car. Certainly one that
>> has the deck stacked in the favor of a long service life.
>
> I'd love to see your evidence. As there's no free maintenance in other
> countries.

I offered an opinion. Yours may differ. I doubt extended interval changes
matter at all at 50-100,000 miles. It's the car that's kept for over ten
years and is closing in on 200,000 that I think will. Folks are finding a
nice accumulation of sludge in their oil pans (primarily 540's when the oil
pump bolts are checked and tightened) when using the service interval.

Car makers are interested in making their machines less costly to support
(in the case of free maintenance) or more appealing in terms of support
costs (to their customers). Long term ownership issues are not high on
their list of priorities. BMW isn't particularly sensitive to reliability
issues (M3 engines, 540 radiators).

> By all means waste your money on changing fluids as often as you feel. But
> let's have hard facts here, rather than religion.

So be it.

R / John

In article >,
John Carrier > wrote:
> I offered an opinion. Yours may differ. I doubt extended interval
> changes matter at all at 50-100,000 miles. It's the car that's kept
> for over ten years and is closing in on 200,000 that I think will.
> Folks are finding a nice accumulation of sludge in their oil pans
> (primarily 540's when the oil pump bolts are checked and tightened)
> when using the service interval.

But are you saying this didn't happen with the shorter service intervals?
And sludge formation also depends on the sort of use the car has had - and
possibly the make/type of oil.

IMHO, it's all too easy to jump to conclusions.

> Car makers are interested in making their machines less costly to
> support (in the case of free maintenance) or more appealing in terms of
> support costs (to their customers).

And dealers simply put up their service prices to cover any shortfall?

> Long term ownership issues are not
> high on their list of priorities. BMW isn't particularly sensitive to
> reliability issues (M3 engines, 540 radiators).

I'd say they are rather sensitive to the M3 (and Nikasil etc) engine
problems, given the costs to them of warranty repairs.

The rads are another issue. I've never been sure why they use a mixture
of plastic and copper, or whatever. Weight saving? Can't see the cost can
really be an issue.

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some manufacturers do seem to care about long-term ownership, e.g. Merc.

In general, guarantees and certificates depend on testing. I might give a
one-year (or 10 000-mile interval) guarantee on a car, but double that may
be ok.

However, until I have tested it I won't warrant it. However, in the meatime
I might be running long-term testing so that I can issue a new
longer-lasting warranty. When I am satisfied it's doable I'll issue it.
Maybe link it with something else.

Especially with oil changes/service, the intervals have been rising for
years. I would not think that a 'sudden' doubling is a big deal. If BMW
thinks it's ok, I would not worry about it.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>
> Car makers are interested in making their machines less costly to support
> (in the case of free maintenance) or more appealing in terms of support
> costs (to their customers). Long term ownership issues are not high on
> their list of priorities.

[...]

Dave states:

<In article >,
bfd > wrote:


> Think of it this way, BMW use to recommend tranny and differential
fluid
> be changed every 30,000 miles, coolant every 2 years and brake fluid
> every two years;


They still need coolant and brake fluid changes.

But the oils - both engine and transmission - are new types>

Agree. The problem is the since implementing the "free scheduled
maintenance" program, they basically doubled the time to change thing.
Before, BMW recommended changing coolant and brake fluid ever 2 years.
Now, its doubled. Same brake fluid and coolant, just double the time to
replace.

With regard to engine oil, the service intervals are something like
every 15,000 miles. Today, all BMW use synthetic oil. This in and of
itself extends the life of the oil and allows a longer interval between
changes. Still, 15,000 is a long time and changing oil becomes
predicated on type of use, e.g., city, stop and go type traffic is
"harder" on an engine and would call for more frequent oil changes than
longer, freeway type driving.

As for transmission and differential changes, I think Mike Miller in
the latest Roundel summed it up best when he said it doesn't make sense
to mess around with risking the breakdown of a $6,000 tranmission, when
$30 worth of oil (synthetic) every 30,000 would help prevent that.

<In the UK, most BMW new buyers change their cars *well* before 100,000
miles. Here, you'll never see a secondhand car at a main dealer with
anything near that mileage. 50,000 is more like the maximum. High
mileage trade ins go either to auction or to a local 'specialist'
dealer - no matter how good they are condition wise. >

Point taken. The same can be said about cars in Japan. I guess with the
strong British Pound and "weak" US dollar, you see more used cars in
the US....