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Again with the ticket quotas



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th 06, 04:43 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
Arif Khokar
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Posts: 1,804
Default Again with the ticket quotas

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06220/711935-85.stm
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  #2  
Old August 9th 06, 04:52 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Again with the ticket quotas

In article >, Arif Khokar wrote:
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06220/711935-85.stm


Yep, same old thing... there are no 'quotas' but if you bring in a below
average amount of money expect to be punished. If you want to be
promoted bring in a lot of cash.


  #3  
Old August 9th 06, 04:56 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
gpsman
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Posts: 3,233
Default Again with the ticket quotas

Arif Khokar wrote:
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06220/711935-85.stm


Watch this. My fingers never leave my hands...

Trooper lawsuit claims ticket quota

Tuesday, August 08, 2006
By Paula Reed Ward, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A state trooper yesterday filed a lawsuit against his employer and
numerous supervisors, claiming he's being punished for not meeting an
illegal quota for traffic citations.

Christopher D. Aubrecht, stationed with Troop T in New Stanton, cites
several claims, including defamation; invasion of privacy; inadequate
training and supervision; and the federal whistle-blower law.

Mr. Aubrecht claims that he always received satisfactory or above
performance level reviews. But in June 2005, after he received a
satisfactory review, his supervisor was ordered to change it "to
reflect that his work results needed improvement," because he failed
"to adhere to the station average for the issuance of traffic
citations," the lawsuit claims.

Troopers who did not meet the "illegal quota system," were punished,
Mr. Aubrecht contends, with fewer overtime opportunities; no promotions
and reassignments.

He claims that's what happened to him, and that the punishment he
received has interrupted his ability to attend college classes.
Additionally, he said troopers who exceeded the quota were rewarded.

Named as defendants in the lawsuit are the Pennsylvania State Police;
Col. Jeffrey B. Miller, the commissioner of the state police; several
other state-level and troop-level supervisors and the Pennsylvania
State Troopers Association.

Mr. Aubrecht is seeking to stop the enforcement of a quota system and
compensatory and punitive damages.
=====

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a cop assigned to traffic duty
might be expected to write a few tickets.

If the "station average" is 20/week and Mr. Aubrecht could only manage
to issue 2... with the clouds of sloths and LLB'ers clogging up the
highway... perhaps he was spending his time elsewhere.

As usual, the news report details very little; certainly enough to
speculate and rant, not enough on which to base an informed conclusion.
-----

- gpsman

  #4  
Old August 9th 06, 02:25 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Mike T.
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Posts: 563
Default Again with the ticket quotas

> It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a cop assigned to traffic duty
> might be expected to write a few tickets.
>
> If the "station average" is 20/week and Mr. Aubrecht could only manage
> to issue 2... with the clouds of sloths and LLB'ers clogging up the
> highway... perhaps he was spending his time elsewhere.


The problem is that traffic tickets are a tax on motorists that has nothing
at all to do with safety. If it was about safety, there would be no quota.
SOME cops understand this, and would prefer to be allowed to concentrate on
truly dangerous drivers. Most cops just go with the flow and collect taxes
while telling themselves and everybody else that it's about safety. Thus
the only good cops are the ones who are well below average, in terms of
number of tickets written and in terms of amount of fines assessed. It is
truly bull**** that good cops like that are punished for being good cops.

Simply put, this cop objects to being forced to be a tax collector with a
gun. Most don't object to that, but here is one who does. -Dave


  #5  
Old August 9th 06, 03:48 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Shawn Hirn
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Posts: 392
Default Again with the ticket quotas

In article ews.net>,
"Mike T." > wrote:

> > It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a cop assigned to traffic duty
> > might be expected to write a few tickets.
> >
> > If the "station average" is 20/week and Mr. Aubrecht could only manage
> > to issue 2... with the clouds of sloths and LLB'ers clogging up the
> > highway... perhaps he was spending his time elsewhere.

>
> The problem is that traffic tickets are a tax on motorists that has nothing
> at all to do with safety. If it was about safety, there would be no quota.
> SOME cops understand this, and would prefer to be allowed to concentrate on
> truly dangerous drivers. Most cops just go with the flow and collect taxes
> while telling themselves and everybody else that it's about safety. Thus
> the only good cops are the ones who are well below average, in terms of
> number of tickets written and in terms of amount of fines assessed. It is
> truly bull**** that good cops like that are punished for being good cops.
>
> Simply put, this cop objects to being forced to be a tax collector with a
> gun. Most don't object to that, but here is one who does. -Dave


I would like to see a law that requires 85% of the revenue from all
traffic tickets to go to a charity. The remaining 15% goes to
administrative overhead. Each person who is issued a ticket for a moving
violation would have the option of selecting one charity to receive the
funds and if a charity is not selected, the money can get into a default
charity. This way, it takes the financial motivation to issue tickets
off the table.
  #6  
Old August 9th 06, 04:03 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
[email protected]
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Posts: 5
Default Again with the ticket quotas

In article >,
Shawn Hirn > wrote:

> In article ews.net>,
> "Mike T." > wrote:
>
> > > It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a cop assigned to traffic duty
> > > might be expected to write a few tickets.
> > >
> > > If the "station average" is 20/week and Mr. Aubrecht could only manage
> > > to issue 2... with the clouds of sloths and LLB'ers clogging up the
> > > highway... perhaps he was spending his time elsewhere.

> >
> > The problem is that traffic tickets are a tax on motorists that has nothing
> > at all to do with safety. If it was about safety, there would be no quota.
> > SOME cops understand this, and would prefer to be allowed to concentrate on
> > truly dangerous drivers. Most cops just go with the flow and collect taxes
> > while telling themselves and everybody else that it's about safety. Thus
> > the only good cops are the ones who are well below average, in terms of
> > number of tickets written and in terms of amount of fines assessed. It is
> > truly bull**** that good cops like that are punished for being good cops.
> >
> > Simply put, this cop objects to being forced to be a tax collector with a
> > gun. Most don't object to that, but here is one who does. -Dave

>
> I would like to see a law that requires 85% of the revenue from all
> traffic tickets to go to a charity. The remaining 15% goes to
> administrative overhead. Each person who is issued a ticket for a moving
> violation would have the option of selecting one charity to receive the
> funds and if a charity is not selected, the money can get into a default
> charity. This way, it takes the financial motivation to issue tickets
> off the table.


Another solution would be to drop the fine and just issue points.

Think about how removing fines will affect enforcement priorities. If
there is no money to be made, why run speed traps on safe roads? A real
switch in priorities would target the real hazards, the people and
situations that cause accidents. They'll get points, suspensions, and
come to the attention of their friendly insurance companies. But it will
be their driving and not their money that would cause the enforcement
action.
  #7  
Old August 9th 06, 04:18 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Mike T.
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Posts: 563
Default Again with the ticket quotas

> I would like to see a law that requires 85% of the revenue from all
> traffic tickets to go to a charity. The remaining 15% goes to
> administrative overhead. Each person who is issued a ticket for a moving
> violation would have the option of selecting one charity to receive the
> funds and if a charity is not selected, the money can get into a default
> charity. This way, it takes the financial motivation to issue tickets
> off the table.


No, that would make matters worse. The quotas would increase about 700% to
cover the budget shortfall. In other words, if you divert most of the taxes
elsewhere, the local governments will just put pressure on the cops to write
more tickets.

A plan that WOULD work would be to require 105% of all traffic ticket
revenue to be donated to charity. How is it possible to require more than
100% of traffic ticket revenue go to charity? I think local governments
should -match- the charity donation, 5 dollars for every 100 dollars
collected in traffic fines. THEN the political pressure would be on cops to
only ticket truly unsafe driving behaviors, as writing too many frivolous
67/55 type bull**** speeding tickets is really going to hurt the bottom
line. -Dave


  #8  
Old August 9th 06, 04:39 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
gpsman
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Posts: 3,233
Default Again with the ticket quotas

Mike T. wrote:
> > It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a cop assigned to traffic duty
> > might be expected to write a few tickets.
> >
> > If the "station average" is 20/week and Mr. Aubrecht could only manage
> > to issue 2... with the clouds of sloths and LLB'ers clogging up the
> > highway... perhaps he was spending his time elsewhere.

>
> The problem is that traffic tickets are a tax on motorists that has nothing
> at all to do with safety.


Really...?! I think you mean speeding tickets. I don't think you'd
have a problem with a driver who ran a red light and injured you or
your loved one being cited... would you?

> If it was about safety, there would be no quota.


Spurious conclusion. The existence of a quota would not prevent the
inclusion of safety.

Mr. Aubrecht is "claiming" that his failure to perform to his
jurisdictions "average" of citations is a quota. So far, that has not
been determined to *be* a quota, except by a few have very little if
any personal knowledge of the circumstances.

ISTM that some standard must exist to determine job performance.
Perhaps Mr. Aubrecht arrested twice as many otherand more dangerous
criminals as his fellow officers "average" in traffic citations and so
that's what was consuming his time. Still, that remains to be seen and
we'll likely never learn the outcome of his suit.

> SOME cops understand this, and would prefer to be allowed to concentrate on
> truly dangerous drivers.


Then they should acquire a supervisory position.

You *do* have a superior at work who determines your goals... so that
he may attain the goals of the responsibility which he been assigned by
*his* boss... so that you both keep your jobs and have a realistic
chance for advancement... don't you?

> Most cops just go with the flow and collect taxes
> while telling themselves and everybody else that it's about safety.


I don't think so. I think most everybody who has a job does what
they're told. I don't think cops usually determine that safety is a
reason for a law, I don't see why the reason for a law would matter to
them.

> Thus
> the only good cops are the ones who are well below average, in terms of
> number of tickets written and in terms of amount of fines assessed. It is
> truly bull**** that good cops like that are punished for being good cops.


I think a good cop might show some results, a reason why he should
collect his paycheck. If Mr. Aubrecht is assigned to traffic duty and
spends his work period sleeping behind a shopping center... I don't
think that would be being a very good cop.

I think the question is, what has Mr. Aubrect been doing with his work
time, and why does he feel he should be earning "Attaboys" for it?

>
> Simply put, this cop objects to being forced to be a tax collector with a
> gun.


Spurious conclusion. He may just be lazy or stupid. He may have taken
a second job and catches up on his rest while on duty for the state.
The "tax" reference is ridiculous as I have rarely had that tax burden
unfairly assigned to me, or anyone I know.

At any rate, if he objects to writing traffic citations when that has
been determined by his superiors to be his job, he should find another
job.

Whatever you do... washing windshields on the corner... if you don't
want to do that and refuse to do it, I don't think you should be paid
to not do it, do you?

> Most don't object to that, but here is one who does.


Spurious conclusion. You could have no idea of his motivation.
Perhaps he prefers to strongarm merchants for "protection" money rather
than stand out on a hot highway dealing with the likes of the pinheads
in r.a.d. Perhaps he's a serial rapist and spends his time occupied
there... you don't know.
-----

- gpsman

  #9  
Old August 9th 06, 04:40 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.transport.road,alt.law-enforcement.traffic,talk.politics.misc,alt.true-crime
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
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Posts: 376
Default Again with the ticket quotas

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:52:58 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, Arif Khokar wrote:
>>
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06220/711935-85.stm
>
>Yep, same old thing... there are no 'quotas' but if you bring in a below
>average amount of money expect to be punished. If you want to be
>promoted bring in a lot of cash.
>


This problem would go away if traffic crimes were punished with DL
suspension or jail time instead of fines. You want that? I do.

  #10  
Old August 9th 06, 05:15 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Mike T.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 563
Default Again with the ticket quotas



>>
>> I would like to see a law that requires 85% of the revenue from all
>> traffic tickets to go to a charity. The remaining 15% goes to
>> administrative overhead. Each person who is issued a ticket for a moving
>> violation would have the option of selecting one charity to receive the
>> funds and if a charity is not selected, the money can get into a default
>> charity. This way, it takes the financial motivation to issue tickets
>> off the table.

>
> Another solution would be to drop the fine and just issue points.
>
> Think about how removing fines will affect enforcement priorities. If
> there is no money to be made, why run speed traps on safe roads? A real
> switch in priorities would target the real hazards, the people and
> situations that cause accidents. They'll get points, suspensions, and
> come to the attention of their friendly insurance companies. But it will
> be their driving and not their money that would cause the enforcement
> action.


Actually, it would still be the money that causes the enforcement action.
Insurance companies already donate gobs of money and supplies (ie, radar
guns, etc.) to law enforcement agencies. If we make traffic safety a points
game, expect the kickbacks from insurance companies to quadruple. So we end
up in a situation where the local cops who issue the most tickets get the
jackpot of a donation of a million bucks from the insurance agency that they
helped to make rich.

No, I think my idea was the only one likely to work . . . donate 105% of
ticket revenue to charity, with the local government kicking in the extra
5%. That has no drawbacks, political pressure would be to maximize safety
and minimize tax collection. -Dave


 




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