fuel economy in car commercials

Magnulus wrote:
> "Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How so? It has as much room as a Camry, sells for about Camry
prices,
> gets
> > much better mileage, and qualifies for a gov't tax credit.
>
> 28,000 dollars vs. 20,000 dollars for the Camry. And the rear
seat in
> the Prius has less headroom, even though it's a hatchback.

To buy a Prius just because of higher gas prices is ridiculous. It'd
take years to pay of $28k.

Now, if you're already in the market (which I think it's nuts to buy a
new car anyway), you've spend $8k more. Save maybe $500 a year in gas,
and it'll take 16 years to pay it off.

In article >,
"Magnulus" > wrote:
>
>"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
>> What about the annual emissions tests?
>
> Diesels are sometimes exempt from emissions tests. In most areas, if
it
>is required, it is a simple opacity test. A modern diesel car in the
last
>ten years will pass it easily.
>
>> They do for NOx and particulates (less for HC and CO).
>
> A modern diesel makes less pollution than a gasoline engine from a few
>decades ago. Given that over half of air pollution is due to old,
>worn-out cars and trucks on the road, and not due to people driving SUV's
or
>diesel engines, it would seem that tighter and tighter emissions controls
>are not the most effective way to reduce pollution, and they have
>significant economic costs.
>
>
Well, I would agree, but for some reason, politicians won't pass laws to
get the worst offenders off the roads.

In Atlanta, for example, autos older than 24 years are exempt from
inspections. And if your car fails, all you have to do is show you spent
around $700 trying to fix it and you'll get your sticker.

In article >,
"Magnulus" > wrote:
>
>"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Nope. 21,000 vs 20,000. (source: www.kbb.com)
>
> KBB is not authoritative in this case. You go to a Toyota dealer right
>now and he's going to charge you 28,000 dollars. 22,000 would be for a
>used Prius with a little mileage and no options.

Depends on supply and demand. Hybrids are hot, which probably means
they'll hold their value a lot better too.

>
>>
>> The Prius has .4 inches more front leg room and .8" more rear leg room.
>> The headroom is close, 0.1" less in front and 1.2" less in rear (the
Prius
>> has a more sloping roof).
>
> I sat in one, and those numbers are meaningless. My head touched the
roof
>in the back. I have this problem with alot of cars, though, but in the
>Prius for some reason it was particularly not good. Leg room was fine.
>
>

In article >,
"Magnulus" > wrote:
>
>"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
>> >To buy a Prius just because of higher gas prices is ridiculous. It'd
>> >take years to pay of $28k.
>> >
>> >Now, if you're already in the market (which I think it's nuts to buy a
>> >new car anyway), you've spend $8k more. Save maybe $500 a year in gas,
>> >and it'll take 16 years to pay it off.
>> >
>> It's $1000, and there's a federal tax deduction for buying a hybrid.
>
> How would you save 1000 dollars per year? (or are you saying it's priced
>1000 dollars les?).
>

The Prius's MSRP is only $1000 more than a Camry LE 4-cylinder.

> In the "real world", the Prius commands a high price because it's in
>demand. Dealerships can charge whatever they want for it.
>
> There are much more cost effective ways to improve fuel economy.
>Integrated starter motor generators, improved gearbox and transmission
>technology, improved engine design (direct injection gasoline engines,
>diesel engines, variable valve timing, etc.). All of them would be
cheaper
>than incorporating a full hybrid.
>
>
Then why hasn't anybody done so? Everybody's jumping on the hybrid
bandwagon -- Toyota, Honda, Ford, and others coming.

In article >, Lloyd Parker wrote:

> The Prius has .4 inches more front leg room and .8" more rear leg room.
> The headroom is close, 0.1" less in front and 1.2" less in rear (the Prius
> has a more sloping roof).

So, Dr. Parker, when are you buying one? You still driving that fuel
sucking (at least by comparision) Mercedes?

"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
> What about the annual emissions tests?

Diesels are sometimes exempt from emissions tests. In most areas, if it
is required, it is a simple opacity test. A modern diesel car in the last
ten years will pass it easily.

> They do for NOx and particulates (less for HC and CO).

A modern diesel makes less pollution than a gasoline engine from a few
decades ago. Given that over half of air pollution is due to old,
worn-out cars and trucks on the road, and not due to people driving SUV's or
diesel engines, it would seem that tighter and tighter emissions controls
are not the most effective way to reduce pollution, and they have
significant economic costs.

"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nope. 21,000 vs 20,000. (source: www.kbb.com)

KBB is not authoritative in this case. You go to a Toyota dealer right
now and he's going to charge you 28,000 dollars. 22,000 would be for a
used Prius with a little mileage and no options.

>
> The Prius has .4 inches more front leg room and .8" more rear leg room.
> The headroom is close, 0.1" less in front and 1.2" less in rear (the Prius
> has a more sloping roof).

I sat in one, and those numbers are meaningless. My head touched the roof
in the back. I have this problem with alot of cars, though, but in the
Prius for some reason it was particularly not good. Leg room was fine.

"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
> >To buy a Prius just because of higher gas prices is ridiculous. It'd
> >take years to pay of $28k.
> >
> >Now, if you're already in the market (which I think it's nuts to buy a
> >new car anyway), you've spend $8k more. Save maybe $500 a year in gas,
> >and it'll take 16 years to pay it off.
> >
> It's $1000, and there's a federal tax deduction for buying a hybrid.

How would you save 1000 dollars per year? (or are you saying it's priced
1000 dollars les?).

In the "real world", the Prius commands a high price because it's in
demand. Dealerships can charge whatever they want for it.

There are much more cost effective ways to improve fuel economy.
Integrated starter motor generators, improved gearbox and transmission
technology, improved engine design (direct injection gasoline engines,
diesel engines, variable valve timing, etc.). All of them would be cheaper
than incorporating a full hybrid.

"Lloyd Parker" > wrote in message
...
> In Atlanta, for example, autos older than 24 years are exempt from
> inspections. And if your car fails, all you have to do is show you spent
> around $700 trying to fix it and you'll get your sticker.

That's because the cars are probably considered vintage- it makes a
grandfathered loophole so people can drive around classic cars. Many of
the high-polluting "older" cars will actually be less than 20 years old,
though.

Magnulus wrote:
>
> "Lloyd Parker" > wrote:
> > In Atlanta, for example, autos older than 24 years are exempt from
> > inspections. And if your car fails, all you have to do is show you spent
> > around $700 trying to fix it and you'll get your sticker.

PROVIDING they're willing to pay the $700 bribe every year. I call it
chicken****.

> That's because the cars are probably considered vintage- it makes a
> grandfathered loophole so people can drive around classic cars. Many of
> the high-polluting "older" cars will actually be less than 20 years old,
> though.

--
Cheers,
Bev
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"It is a matter of regret that many low, mean suspicions
turn out to be well-founded." -- Edgar Watson Howe