cautionary brake pad tale!

today, for the first time ever, i spun a car. rather embarrassing.
i've driven all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions, and i've
never made this mistake before - and believe me, there have been times
where i've tried! and it was my crx no less - the car with amazing
cornering. fortunately there was no one hurt, and no damage to the
vehicle, but here's my analysis.

cheap low quality front brake pads causing a front-rear brake
proportioning problem. light braking on a curve caused the rear brakes
to lock and next thing i knew, my rear was overtaking my front, and
there was no recovery. if the front brakes had been working in
proportion, the rear brakes would not have locked, and the vehicle would
not have spun.

it's my fault. when i first inspected this vehicle, i noted that the
rear shoes were original honda, and only part worn. the front pads
however were some cheesy aftermarket stuff and wearing unevenly. they
also had some awful anti-squeal shims riveted to the backs which were
breaking apart. but, they worked, mostly, and priority 1 was getting
the vehicle smogged and back on the road, so i re-used both sets of
brake materials, particularly as for the disks, they'd worn an odd
pattern into the metal, so i didn't want to replace the pads without
replacing the disks as well.

and so i smogged the vehicle, and had pretty much forgotten about it.
fast forward to today, and learning not to ignore something you /know/
to be a problem!

moral of the story:
always use matching brake pad/shoe materials front and rear, preferably
honda oem. the proportioning valve is set for their use. put in
different brake materials, and the friction coefficients will be
different, and the proportioning will be upset. this may not be
noticeable in ordinary pottering about town and straight line braking,
but anything slightly above that requirement, like an emergency, and
suddenly you could be plowing into a tree, or worse, someone's living room.

honda brake pads ladies and gentlemen! they're very good, they're very
price competitive, and with them, your car is /very/ much safer.

jim beam wrote:

> today, for the first time ever, i spun a car. rather embarrassing. i've
> driven all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions, and i've never
> made this mistake before - and believe me, there have been times where
> i've tried! and it was my crx no less - the car with amazing
> cornering. fortunately there was no one hurt, and no damage to the
> vehicle, but here's my analysis.
>
> cheap low quality front brake pads causing a front-rear brake
> proportioning problem. light braking on a curve caused the rear brakes
> to lock and next thing i knew, my rear was overtaking my front, and
> there was no recovery. if the front brakes had been working in
> proportion, the rear brakes would not have locked, and the vehicle would
> not have spun.
>
> it's my fault. when i first inspected this vehicle, i noted that the
> rear shoes were original honda, and only part worn. the front pads
> however were some cheesy aftermarket stuff and wearing unevenly. they
> also had some awful anti-squeal shims riveted to the backs which were
> breaking apart. but, they worked, mostly, and priority 1 was getting
> the vehicle smogged and back on the road, so i re-used both sets of
> brake materials, particularly as for the disks, they'd worn an odd
> pattern into the metal, so i didn't want to replace the pads without
> replacing the disks as well.
>
> and so i smogged the vehicle, and had pretty much forgotten about it.
> fast forward to today, and learning not to ignore something you /know/
> to be a problem!
>
> moral of the story:
> always use matching brake pad/shoe materials front and rear, preferably
> honda oem. the proportioning valve is set for their use. put in
> different brake materials, and the friction coefficients will be
> different, and the proportioning will be upset. this may not be
> noticeable in ordinary pottering about town and straight line braking,
> but anything slightly above that requirement, like an emergency, and
> suddenly you could be plowing into a tree, or worse, someone's living room.
>
> honda brake pads ladies and gentlemen! they're very good, they're very
> price competitive, and with them, your car is /very/ much safer.
>


You bring up a good point. On my two el-cheapo ancient Honda(s), both
still have the original rear shoes but cheapo front pads. Both have
developed a shimmy when braking and I suspect that the cause is exactly
what you described.

New Honda pads are on the schedule...

JT

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> today, for the first time ever, i spun a car. rather embarrassing.
>> i've driven all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions, and i've
>> never made this mistake before - and believe me, there have been times
>> where i've tried! and it was my crx no less - the car with amazing
>> cornering. fortunately there was no one hurt, and no damage to the
>> vehicle, but here's my analysis.
>>
>> cheap low quality front brake pads causing a front-rear brake
>> proportioning problem. light braking on a curve caused the rear
>> brakes to lock and next thing i knew, my rear was overtaking my front,
>> and there was no recovery. if the front brakes had been working in
>> proportion, the rear brakes would not have locked, and the vehicle
>> would not have spun.
>>
>> it's my fault. when i first inspected this vehicle, i noted that the
>> rear shoes were original honda, and only part worn. the front pads
>> however were some cheesy aftermarket stuff and wearing unevenly. they
>> also had some awful anti-squeal shims riveted to the backs which were
>> breaking apart. but, they worked, mostly, and priority 1 was getting
>> the vehicle smogged and back on the road, so i re-used both sets of
>> brake materials, particularly as for the disks, they'd worn an odd
>> pattern into the metal, so i didn't want to replace the pads without
>> replacing the disks as well.
>>
>> and so i smogged the vehicle, and had pretty much forgotten about it.
>> fast forward to today, and learning not to ignore something you /know/
>> to be a problem!
>>
>> moral of the story:
>> always use matching brake pad/shoe materials front and rear,
>> preferably honda oem. the proportioning valve is set for their use.
>> put in different brake materials, and the friction coefficients will
>> be different, and the proportioning will be upset. this may not be
>> noticeable in ordinary pottering about town and straight line braking,
>> but anything slightly above that requirement, like an emergency, and
>> suddenly you could be plowing into a tree, or worse, someone's living
>> room.
>>
>> honda brake pads ladies and gentlemen! they're very good, they're
>> very price competitive, and with them, your car is /very/ much safer.
>>
>
>
> You bring up a good point. On my two el-cheapo ancient Honda(s), both
> still have the original rear shoes but cheapo front pads. Both have
> developed a shimmy when braking and I suspect that the cause is exactly
> what you described.
>
> New Honda pads are on the schedule...
>
> JT
>
i haven't found shimmy to be a problem with these pads, or this car, but
i have on other vehicles. i find that the proper torque, torque
sequence, and a little antiseize on the face of the disk mounts after
they've been craped clean of rust, do wonders. so much so in fact, i've
completely and permanently cured this problem on my civic after it
suddenly appeared after a tire shop last had the wheels off.

On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, jim beam > wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
> > jim beam wrote:
>
> >> today, for the first time ever, i spun a car. rather embarrassing.
> >> i've driven all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions, and i've
> >> never made this mistake before - and believe me, there have been times
> >> where i've tried! and it was my crx no less - the car with amazing
> >> cornering. fortunately there was no one hurt, and no damage to the
> >> vehicle, but here's my analysis.
>
> >> cheap low quality front brake pads causing a front-rear brake
> >> proportioning problem. light braking on a curve caused the rear
> >> brakes to lock and next thing i knew, my rear was overtaking my front,
> >> and there was no recovery. if the front brakes had been working in
> >> proportion, the rear brakes would not have locked, and the vehicle
> >> would not have spun.
>
> >> it's my fault. when i first inspected this vehicle, i noted that the
> >> rear shoes were original honda, and only part worn. the front pads
> >> however were some cheesy aftermarket stuff and wearing unevenly. they
> >> also had some awful anti-squeal shims riveted to the backs which were
> >> breaking apart. but, they worked, mostly, and priority 1 was getting
> >> the vehicle smogged and back on the road, so i re-used both sets of
> >> brake materials, particularly as for the disks, they'd worn an odd
> >> pattern into the metal, so i didn't want to replace the pads without
> >> replacing the disks as well.
>
> >> and so i smogged the vehicle, and had pretty much forgotten about it.
> >> fast forward to today, and learning not to ignore something you /know/
> >> to be a problem!
>
> >> moral of the story:
> >> always use matching brake pad/shoe materials front and rear,
> >> preferably honda oem. the proportioning valve is set for their use.
> >> put in different brake materials, and the friction coefficients will
> >> be different, and the proportioning will be upset. this may not be
> >> noticeable in ordinary pottering about town and straight line braking,
> >> but anything slightly above that requirement, like an emergency, and
> >> suddenly you could be plowing into a tree, or worse, someone's living
> >> room.
>
> >> honda brake pads ladies and gentlemen! they're very good, they're
> >> very price competitive, and with them, your car is /very/ much safer.
>
> > You bring up a good point. On my two el-cheapo ancient Honda(s), both
> > still have the original rear shoes but cheapo front pads. Both have
> > developed a shimmy when braking and I suspect that the cause is exactly
> > what you described.
>
> > New Honda pads are on the schedule...
>
> > JT
>
> i haven't found shimmy to be a problem with these pads, or this car, but
> i have on other vehicles. i find that the proper torque, torque
> sequence, and a little antiseize on the face of the disk mounts after
> they've been craped clean of rust, do wonders. so much so in fact, i've
> completely and permanently cured this problem on my civic after it
> suddenly appeared after a tire shop last had the wheels off.

sorry for the newbie question, but whats a shimmy?

Scary stuff, glad you're okay.

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

oddvark wrote:
> On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, jim beam > wrote:
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> today, for the first time ever, i spun a car. rather embarrassing.
>>>> i've driven all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions, and i've
>>>> never made this mistake before - and believe me, there have been times
>>>> where i've tried! and it was my crx no less - the car with amazing
>>>> cornering. fortunately there was no one hurt, and no damage to the
>>>> vehicle, but here's my analysis.
>>>> cheap low quality front brake pads causing a front-rear brake
>>>> proportioning problem. light braking on a curve caused the rear
>>>> brakes to lock and next thing i knew, my rear was overtaking my front,
>>>> and there was no recovery. if the front brakes had been working in
>>>> proportion, the rear brakes would not have locked, and the vehicle
>>>> would not have spun.
>>>> it's my fault. when i first inspected this vehicle, i noted that the
>>>> rear shoes were original honda, and only part worn. the front pads
>>>> however were some cheesy aftermarket stuff and wearing unevenly. they
>>>> also had some awful anti-squeal shims riveted to the backs which were
>>>> breaking apart. but, they worked, mostly, and priority 1 was getting
>>>> the vehicle smogged and back on the road, so i re-used both sets of
>>>> brake materials, particularly as for the disks, they'd worn an odd
>>>> pattern into the metal, so i didn't want to replace the pads without
>>>> replacing the disks as well.
>>>> and so i smogged the vehicle, and had pretty much forgotten about it.
>>>> fast forward to today, and learning not to ignore something you /know/
>>>> to be a problem!
>>>> moral of the story:
>>>> always use matching brake pad/shoe materials front and rear,
>>>> preferably honda oem. the proportioning valve is set for their use.
>>>> put in different brake materials, and the friction coefficients will
>>>> be different, and the proportioning will be upset. this may not be
>>>> noticeable in ordinary pottering about town and straight line braking,
>>>> but anything slightly above that requirement, like an emergency, and
>>>> suddenly you could be plowing into a tree, or worse, someone's living
>>>> room.
>>>> honda brake pads ladies and gentlemen! they're very good, they're
>>>> very price competitive, and with them, your car is /very/ much safer.
>>> You bring up a good point. On my two el-cheapo ancient Honda(s), both
>>> still have the original rear shoes but cheapo front pads. Both have
>>> developed a shimmy when braking and I suspect that the cause is exactly
>>> what you described.
>>> New Honda pads are on the schedule...
>>> JT
>> i haven't found shimmy to be a problem with these pads, or this car, but
>> i have on other vehicles. i find that the proper torque, torque
>> sequence, and a little antiseize on the face of the disk mounts after
>> they've been craped clean of rust, do wonders. so much so in fact, i've
>> completely and permanently cured this problem on my civic after it
>> suddenly appeared after a tire shop last had the wheels off.
>
> sorry for the newbie question, but whats a shimmy?
>
maybe shimmy's not the right word, but it's a shuddering effect when
braking, commonly attributed to "warped rotors". google this group for
my numerous rants on the subject.