Black Transmission Fluid - - Any Hope???

Hey all,

My wife and I just got hitched and I've now inherited the
responsibility of maintaining her little 2002 Toyota Rav4... her pride
and joy. I've been taking it in for its regular oil changes for a while
now and decided to check on the transmission fluid the other day...
turns out it's never been changed. Ever.

The car now has over 120K miles and has no super-major transmission
concerns "yet," but the tranny fluid is, of course, about as black as
it gets. I was about to have the fluid and filter changed out but the
mechanic said that once it gets that dark it's better to leave it in
and start saving for a new tranny. He explained that the sediment in
the fluid, if drained, would settle into the transmission's inner parts
and more than likely ruin it right away.

Does anyone have any experience with something like this? Is it
possible to save this tranny? Is this an exaggeration?

Thanks in advance for your help and shared knowledge! :smokin:


--
decoyfred
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"decoyfred" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey all,
>
> My wife and I just got hitched and I've now inherited the
> responsibility of maintaining her little 2002 Toyota Rav4... her pride
> and joy. I've been taking it in for its regular oil changes for a while
> now and decided to check on the transmission fluid the other day...
> turns out it's never been changed. Ever.
>
> The car now has over 120K miles and has no super-major transmission
> concerns "yet," but the tranny fluid is, of course, about as black as
> it gets. I was about to have the fluid and filter changed out but the
> mechanic said that once it gets that dark it's better to leave it in
> and start saving for a new tranny. He explained that the sediment in
> the fluid, if drained, would settle into the transmission's inner parts
> and more than likely ruin it right away.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with something like this? Is it
> possible to save this tranny? Is this an exaggeration?

"Black" tranny fluid is not a good sign. Lots of people, however,
don't give transmission service a second thought until it is late in
the game.

We've heard the story that, in transmission like this, it may be
inadvisable to service the tranny at this stage. The claim is that
sludge and varnish are the only reasons your tranny continues
to work and if you clean it up, it may fail. (Whether true or not....)

The previous mechanic's story is, however, a little lacking in credibility:
If the fluid is black, you are already circulating crap through the
innards. If you drop the pan and clean it out, you will not stir up
any new 'sludge'.

In my estimation, you are already driving with a ticking time bomb.
It WILL fail, sooner or later. I would prefer that my car fail at home
than on the road, but I never let my cars go so long without service.

If it were mine, I would be sure I had money reserved for a rebuild,
and would change the fluid. It is your choice, and your gamble.

Nobody can tell you, for sure, what is going to happen.

decoyfred wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> My wife and I just got hitched and I've now inherited the
> responsibility of maintaining her little 2002 Toyota Rav4... her pride
> and joy. I've been taking it in for its regular oil changes for a while
> now and decided to check on the transmission fluid the other day...
> turns out it's never been changed. Ever.
>
> The car now has over 120K miles and has no super-major transmission
> concerns "yet," but the tranny fluid is, of course, about as black as
> it gets. I was about to have the fluid and filter changed out but the
> mechanic said that once it gets that dark it's better to leave it in
> and start saving for a new tranny. He explained that the sediment in
> the fluid, if drained, would settle into the transmission's inner parts
> and more than likely ruin it right away.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with something like this? Is it
> possible to save this tranny? Is this an exaggeration?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help and shared knowledge! :smokin:
>
>
I usually tell more by doing a 'sniff' test. If it smells burnt or like
burnt toast, it is likely in trouble.

Otherwise I have seen a bunch of really black fluid come out of a lot of
old vehicles without them failing soon after. Lots actually.... I have
even seen what looked like diarrhea come out of a couple Jeep CJ ones
that got filled with muddy water and they still ran after too.

However, I also hear of a lot that go to quick lubs and get told what
you are told and do it with 'them' anyway. Those ones for some strange
reason all seem 'to' fail....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

I have been to one of those quick lube places before.I will never go to
one of them ever again.One hot afternoon,I didn't feel like changing the
oil and oil filter and lubebing all of the alemites,(1978 Dodge van) so
I drove my old van to a quick lube place.I told them all I want for my
old van is an oil and oil filter change and a lube job.I was standing
there at the front of the lube pit and watching as best as I could.I
don't think the guy lubed all of the alemites.When I got back home and I
looked under my van,I could see most of the alemites haden't even been
touched,so I got out my grease gun and I lubed them all myself.
cuhulin

"decoyfred" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey all,
>
> My wife and I just got hitched and I've now inherited the
> responsibility of maintaining her little 2002 Toyota Rav4... her pride
> and joy. I've been taking it in for its regular oil changes for a while
> now and decided to check on the transmission fluid the other day...
> turns out it's never been changed. Ever.
>
> The car now has over 120K miles and has no super-major transmission
> concerns "yet," but the tranny fluid is, of course, about as black as
> it gets. I was about to have the fluid and filter changed out but the
> mechanic said that once it gets that dark it's better to leave it in
> and start saving for a new tranny. He explained that the sediment in
> the fluid, if drained, would settle into the transmission's inner parts
> and more than likely ruin it right away.

If changing the fluid causes the transmission to fail, it was bound to leave
you stranded sometime soon anyhow.

I would have the pan dropped and cleaned out, filter changed, and
transmission fluid flushed.

A transmission shop would be better than a lube place to take care of this,
but I'd call both and compare pricing. I'd let a lube shop do a transmission
flush as long as I could watch the whole proceedure... It's actually pretty
simple to do.

Before doing anything, I'd check the owners manual to see if your vehicle
needs any special type of ATF fluid.

wrote in news:21128-462FAB4E-134@storefull-
3253.bay.webtv.net:

> I have been to one of those quick lube places before.I will never go to
> one of them ever again.One hot afternoon,I didn't feel like changing the
> oil and oil filter and lubebing all of the alemites,(1978 Dodge van)



Nobody has had Alemite fittings since about 1930. You had Zerk fittings, or
blank plugs in place of them.

--
Tegger

I never have called them Zerk fittings before.To me,they are Alemite
fittings.
www.machinerylubrication.com
cuhulin

Thank you all for your replies.

Anyone have any particular transmission shop in South Fla. they'd
recommend?

I think there's probably no sense in perpetuating the neglect. A good
transmission shop might have that magic touch our little car needs.

Thanks once more!


--
decoyfred
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wrote in news:5738-46300771-99@storefull-
3257.bay.webtv.net:

> I never have called them Zerk fittings before.To me,they are Alemite
> fittings.
> www.machinerylubrication.com
> cuhulin
>



A Zerk fitting is not the same as an Alemite fitting.

I can't find my October/03 issue of "Skinned Knuckles" magazine. This issue
had an article on the three common sorts of grease fittings used on cars
through the ages. And that's the ONLY issue I can't find!

The magazine article had sketches of the three types of fittings side by
side.

As I remember, an Alemite fitting was straight, not "belled" the way a Zerk
is, and it had two pins extending radially from its diameter. These pins
engaged the grease gun, much as the pins on an 1157 light bulb engage its
socket.

Zerk and Alemite may be the same company now, but the fittings known by
those names are not the same.

--
Tegger

decoyfred wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> My wife and I just got hitched and I've now inherited the
> responsibility of maintaining her little 2002 Toyota Rav4... her pride
> and joy. I've been taking it in for its regular oil changes for a while
> now and decided to check on the transmission fluid the other day...
> turns out it's never been changed. Ever.
>
> The car now has over 120K miles and has no super-major transmission
> concerns "yet," but the tranny fluid is, of course, about as black as
> it gets.

120k miles shouldn't cause auto transmission fluid to be "black" in ANY
vehicle. Back in the days of American 3-speed automatics, you could run
them over 200k on the factory fluid with no damage. Its true that modern
4- 5- and 6-speed transmissions are far more fragile and should have
more frequent fluid changes, but 120k really isn't excessive since most
manufacturers still only recommend 60k intervals even for severe usage.
My guess is that the transmission has been slipping and has burned the
fluid due to a mechanical problem. When you say "no super-major
transmission concerns" it leads me to think there is SOME transmission
behavior that you're noticing is "not right." Sorry to say, its PROBABLY
dead. But not necessarily...


I was about to have the fluid and filter changed out but the
> mechanic said that once it gets that dark it's better to leave it in
> and start saving for a new tranny.

I do NOT agree with that philosophy at all. Yes, there are conditions
where doing a fluid change will cause a transmission that is marginal to
start slipping- but IF a fluid change does that, the transmission was
NOT SAFE to continue driving anyhow. Change the fluid and filter- if the
transmission works it will work a lot longer than it would have with
burned up fluid. If it quits, then it was about to strand you somewhere
anyhow.

Oh, and BE SURE to use only the factory recommended fluid type.