A complete Newbie needs help

Why is that bad advice ?

If you have a manual choke you wouldnt use it if the engine was warm.
You may not use it all summer !

He does say that it might be a bad idea if you live somwhere cold.

I have trouble starting one of mine (1300DP) if the engine is warm but
the choke coil has cooled. I have to put the ignition on (choke heater
on ) for a few minutes before it will start.

Rich


bill may wrote:
> best example of bad advice in the john muir manual is to disconnect
> your choke. i worked at vw dealership in 60's and 70's. i use a
> Bentley.
>

"bill may" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i agree -muir book is crap. i advise burning it.
>

careful Bill...

"tricky" > wrote in message
news
> Why is that bad advice ?
>
> If you have a manual choke you wouldnt use it if the engine was warm.
> You may not use it all summer !
>
> He does say that it might be a bad idea if you live somwhere cold.
>
> I have trouble starting one of mine (1300DP) if the engine is warm but
> the choke coil has cooled. I have to put the ignition on (choke heater
> on ) for a few minutes before it will start.
>


doesn't St. Muir tell you how to properly start a warm engine? Does St.
Muir warn you against leaving your ignition in the on position without the
engine running? he should, doing so could leave you stranded....

On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:24:52 GMT, tricky >
scribbled this interesting note:

>Why is that bad advice ?
>
>If you have a manual choke you wouldnt use it if the engine was warm.
>You may not use it all summer !
>

Our '59 has a manual choke and I use it summer or winter.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"John Willis" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:24:52 GMT, tricky >
> scribbled this interesting note:
>
> >Why is that bad advice ?
> >
> >If you have a manual choke you wouldnt use it if the engine was warm.
> >You may not use it all summer !
> >
>
> Our '59 has a manual choke and I use it summer or winter.
>
>
> --

John, i'm not sure that everyone knows a "cold" engine is still cold in the
summer..LOL

I was thinking back to my 1st car, not a VW, but it had manual choke.
As I recall it needed little to no choke in the summer.

Still if removing the auto choke is a bad thing I would like to know why
? I was thinking of trying it this summer. Always ready to learn more
about VW's !

Muir made sense to me with his reasoning, someone who dissagrees might
make more sense . But I cant make up my mind unless I here the other
side . Just saying 'its bad' doesnt cut it with me, I like to know why !

Rich


Joey Tribiani wrote:

> "John Willis" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:24:52 GMT, tricky >
>>scribbled this interesting note:
>>
>>
>>>Why is that bad advice ?
>>>
>>>If you have a manual choke you wouldnt use it if the engine was warm.
>>>You may not use it all summer !
>>>
>>
>>Our '59 has a manual choke and I use it summer or winter.
>>
>>
>>--
>
>
> John, i'm not sure that everyone knows a "cold" engine is still cold in the
> summer..LOL
>
>

"tricky" > wrote in message
...
> I was thinking back to my 1st car, not a VW, but it had manual choke.
> As I recall it needed little to no choke in the summer.
>
> Still if removing the auto choke is a bad thing I would like to know why
> ? I was thinking of trying it this summer. Always ready to learn more
> about VW's !
>
> Muir made sense to me with his reasoning, someone who dissagrees might
> make more sense . But I cant make up my mind unless I here the other
> side . Just saying 'its bad' doesnt cut it with me, I like to know why !
>
> Rich

okay...well...let me try....the choke serves two functions...it enriches the
mixture because cold fuel and cold engine tend to end up with the fuel
falling "out of suspension" while traveling through the intake...especially
bad in a vw with LONG intake runners....this tends to make the mixture at
the combustion chamber leaner....the second function that is often
overlooked is it puts the throttle to "fast idle"....because the engine is
cold and the fuel tends to separate and puddle you need a bit higher engine
speed to keep it running...this can be compensated for by putting your foot
to it a bit....but usually the operator tends to either goose the engine too
hard(not good on a cold engine) or they rev up and down...also not
good...this adds to the problem because the accelerator pump on the carb
dumps fuel into the intake. the accelerator pump sends a stream down the
throat of the carb and it does not "atomize" as it would with higher engine
speeds...this leads to the fuel puddleing in the intake....this can also
lead to an overly rich mixture if it puddles enough to make it to the
combustion chamber...you end up sooting up your chambers, sparkplugs, and
exhaust..... the excess fuel also "washes" the cylinder walls of the
critical oil that lubricates the rings....this also leads to excess fuel in
the oil, etc....so one change can have a long chain of "cause and effect"
events.... So, not only is it inconvenient because the car is "cold natured"
(stumbling on acceleration, not idling well) but it dilutes oil, lessens
ring lubrication, can foul sparkplugs, adds unnecessary carbon build up to
combustion chambers(which can lead to detonation) and exhaust, and to top it
off it is alot less "efficient" than keeping the choke in proper working
order....the choke automatically sets itself when the heating element cools
off(doesn't take too long) and you step on the throttle... as you pointed
out(I think it was you) this can lead to hardstarting when the engine is
actually warm....you can adjust the choke to not close so tightly(most of
the time the elements are adjusted too "tight" anyway) and also holding the
throttle down about halfway when starting the warm engine is recommended
.....
is that better?

.....the choke automatically sets itself when the heating element cools
> off(doesn't take too long) and you step on the throttle... as you pointed
> out(I think it was you) this can lead to hardstarting when the engine is
> actually warm....you can adjust the choke to not close so tightly(most of
> the time the elements are adjusted too "tight" anyway) and also holding the
> throttle down about halfway when starting the warm engine is recommended
> .....
> is that better?
>
>

Much better - thank you.

Now I can take the bits of stuff I have read from you and muir and
others, and my limited knowledge/experience, and sort out in my own way
what 'I' think is right (whether that is actually right or not ! ), and
play with the choke, or not.

I like info - lots of it , everyone has a slightly different take on
what they think is right. Sometimes you can read a whole new book on a
familiar subject and just a few lines from it teach you something new !


Back to my engine ...
It only does it occasionaly, when I have been on a long drive, and then
stop for about half an hour or so. I need to have the gas padel right
down and let it spin for 10 - 20 secs before it starts firing, usually
one cylinder at a time, and slowly 'picks up'. It always helps if I
switch the ignition on and wait for the choke element to warm up.

Thanks again

Rich

tricky wrote:
>
> ....the choke automatically sets itself when the heating element cools
> > off(doesn't take too long) and you step on the throttle... as you pointed
> > out(I think it was you) this can lead to hardstarting when the engine is
> > actually warm....you can adjust the choke to not close so tightly(most of
> > the time the elements are adjusted too "tight" anyway) and also holding the
> > throttle down about halfway when starting the warm engine is recommended
> > .....
> > is that better?
> >
> >
>
> Much better - thank you.
>
> Now I can take the bits of stuff I have read from you and muir and
> others, and my limited knowledge/experience, and sort out in my own way
> what 'I' think is right (whether that is actually right or not ! ), and
> play with the choke, or not.
>
> I like info - lots of it , everyone has a slightly different take on
> what they think is right. Sometimes you can read a whole new book on a
> familiar subject and just a few lines from it teach you something new !
>
> Back to my engine ...
> It only does it occasionaly, when I have been on a long drive, and then
> stop for about half an hour or so. I need to have the gas padel right
> down and let it spin for 10 - 20 secs before it starts firing, usually
> one cylinder at a time, and slowly 'picks up'. It always helps if I
> switch the ignition on and wait for the choke element to warm up.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Rich

Sounds like overheating symptoms to me.

Jan

The engine is a 1300 DP in a 68 bus. So it works quite hard ! (though I
had the same problems when it was in the beetle) I can drive 300 miles,
switch off, start again in 10 mins with no problems like filling up with
petrol (gas), but if I stop for half an hour or a bit more I get the
trouble ( Like stopping for food etc )?

The engine is only in the bus temperarily, till I get time to rebuild
the 1600 sp for the bus.

Then I will probly rebuild the 1300 too :-)


Rich


Jan Andersson wrote:
> tricky wrote:
>
>>....the choke automatically sets itself when the heating element cools
>>
>>>off(doesn't take too long) and you step on the throttle... as you pointed
>>>out(I think it was you) this can lead to hardstarting when the engine is
>>>actually warm....you can adjust the choke to not close so tightly(most of
>>>the time the elements are adjusted too "tight" anyway) and also holding the
>>>throttle down about halfway when starting the warm engine is recommended
>>>.....
>>>is that better?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Much better - thank you.
>>
>>Now I can take the bits of stuff I have read from you and muir and
>>others, and my limited knowledge/experience, and sort out in my own way
>>what 'I' think is right (whether that is actually right or not ! ), and
>>play with the choke, or not.
>>
>>I like info - lots of it , everyone has a slightly different take on
>>what they think is right. Sometimes you can read a whole new book on a
>>familiar subject and just a few lines from it teach you something new !
>>
>>Back to my engine ...
>>It only does it occasionaly, when I have been on a long drive, and then
>>stop for about half an hour or so. I need to have the gas padel right
>>down and let it spin for 10 - 20 secs before it starts firing, usually
>>one cylinder at a time, and slowly 'picks up'. It always helps if I
>>switch the ignition on and wait for the choke element to warm up.
>>
>>Thanks again
>>
>>Rich
>
>
> Sounds like overheating symptoms to me.
>
> Jan