Opinions please, engine swap (long)

1948 CJ2A, drive-train is mostly original. 134 L-head engine, T-19
trans, Dana 18 xfer, Dana 25 front/rear (or whatever the original,
weakest, kind were). I had the engine rebuilt about 2 years ago. I'm
having the trans and xfer case rebuilt now (I rebuilt them 2 years ago,
with the engine, but did an awful job). I spent a ton of money on new
springs and shocks, 11" brakes, brake master cyl, tie-rods, steering
gear box and shaft, so would like to keep them.

In about two years (or next major problem) I'm going to upgrade the
drive-train, but want to start getting parts now. Mostly I want to be
able to go 60 on the highway, but also it is getting harder to find
parts. I also need a bit more power, because my jeep doesn't do well
going up the mountains, with 4 people, and a small trailer packed with
camping gear.

I wish I could keep the T-19 trans and the Dana 18 xfer, especially
since I'm having them rebuilt right now (by a guy who really knows what
he is doing). However, I don't think they'll hold up well, especially
in the hills, where I want to go (I live at 2,000, and need to get up
to 9,000 feet to get away from the heat on the weekends).

Here is the combination I'm thinking about, after research on this
newsgroup and other places. The main thing I'm worried about is all of
the electronics required. I've got an elec. ignition on my L-head, but
that was cheap enough to buy a spare if I'm ever wondering if it goes
bad (instead of having to take it to someone who can test it).

Chevy 4.3L V6 Vortec Engine
T400R Auto trans (actually I think the newer 4L60-E is what most
recommend)
Dana 300 xfer case, straight through model
Dana 30 rear end, standard (not offset)
Dana 30 front
3.73 gears in front and rear

I was first looking at the older models, with the carbed engine and the
non-electric auto trans. However, I think I'd run into the same
problems with them, not being able to find parts, and I've heard that
those were poor designs. Does anyone make a good V6 carbed engine, or
has recently? How about an auto trans. without a computer? I guess I
could go with manual, but I'd rather have an auto, and it seems nice
not to mess with clutch linkages. I like the fact that this auto is an
OD version also, since I want to cruise on the highway. I don't want
to go over 60 though, I'm not crazy!

I know I can get a carbed 350, V8, and find parts for it. However,
that seems like more work because I have to change the radiator, and it
doesn't fit as well (I love having lots of room to work under the
hood).

I put a 225 Buick V6 in a 1949 CJ2A I used to have. Didn't really like
it, but I also didn't change anything else (trans, xfer, axles) and
ended up blowing the T-19, and still had low top-speed (same gears).

Any opinions greatly appreciated!

Ooops, T400R should have read "700R4" for the trans. I'm thinking of
using. You probably figured that out from the 4L60-E model, which is
correct.

That's a Borg Warner T-90 you have. Which pretty strong providing
you use your head and don't try to bounce it up in a wheelie for second
gear.
The Turbo Hydro 400 is just a little too long for your 80"
wheelbase.
Stick with your Dana 25 front as it has an 7.75" ring gear as
opposed to the 7.125" in a Dana 30
Might keep you off set rear end as the Dana 18 is as strong as the
20 and 300 and can use the Warn overdrive.
YOur stock radiator is three inches thick, but you still need to
change the outlets, might as well put in the stock Corvette four core
cross flow fits like it was made for it.
Your Chevy 4.3L V6 Vortec Engine may be a great choice, and
probably easier to find than a 350" or Buick.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/


wrote:
>
> 1948 CJ2A, drive-train is mostly original. 134 L-head engine, T-19
> trans, Dana 18 xfer, Dana 25 front/rear (or whatever the original,
> weakest, kind were). I had the engine rebuilt about 2 years ago. I'm
> having the trans and xfer case rebuilt now (I rebuilt them 2 years ago,
> with the engine, but did an awful job). I spent a ton of money on new
> springs and shocks, 11" brakes, brake master cyl, tie-rods, steering
> gear box and shaft, so would like to keep them.
>
> In about two years (or next major problem) I'm going to upgrade the
> drive-train, but want to start getting parts now. Mostly I want to be
> able to go 60 on the highway, but also it is getting harder to find
> parts. I also need a bit more power, because my jeep doesn't do well
> going up the mountains, with 4 people, and a small trailer packed with
> camping gear.
>
> I wish I could keep the T-19 trans and the Dana 18 xfer, especially
> since I'm having them rebuilt right now (by a guy who really knows what
> he is doing). However, I don't think they'll hold up well, especially
> in the hills, where I want to go (I live at 2,000, and need to get up
> to 9,000 feet to get away from the heat on the weekends).
>
> Here is the combination I'm thinking about, after research on this
> newsgroup and other places. The main thing I'm worried about is all of
> the electronics required. I've got an elec. ignition on my L-head, but
> that was cheap enough to buy a spare if I'm ever wondering if it goes
> bad (instead of having to take it to someone who can test it).
>
> Chevy 4.3L V6 Vortec Engine
> T400R Auto trans (actually I think the newer 4L60-E is what most
> recommend)
> Dana 300 xfer case, straight through model
> Dana 30 rear end, standard (not offset)
> Dana 30 front
> 3.73 gears in front and rear
>
> I was first looking at the older models, with the carbed engine and the
> non-electric auto trans. However, I think I'd run into the same
> problems with them, not being able to find parts, and I've heard that
> those were poor designs. Does anyone make a good V6 carbed engine, or
> has recently? How about an auto trans. without a computer? I guess I
> could go with manual, but I'd rather have an auto, and it seems nice
> not to mess with clutch linkages. I like the fact that this auto is an
> OD version also, since I want to cruise on the highway. I don't want
> to go over 60 though, I'm not crazy!
>
> I know I can get a carbed 350, V8, and find parts for it. However,
> that seems like more work because I have to change the radiator, and it
> doesn't fit as well (I love having lots of room to work under the
> hood).
>
> I put a 225 Buick V6 in a 1949 CJ2A I used to have. Didn't really like
> it, but I also didn't change anything else (trans, xfer, axles) and
> ended up blowing the T-19, and still had low top-speed (same gears).
>
> Any opinions greatly appreciated!

The 700R is a nice overdrive, used in all the rear wheel drive
taxis. And might be already bolted to the engine you want to use. But
you're going to have to move your axles out to what uses an automatic
like a CJ-7's 94".
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

wrote:
>
> Ooops, T400R should have read "700R4" for the trans. I'm thinking of
> using. You probably figured that out from the 4L60-E model, which is
> correct.

An original drive train has collector value, especially if the body is more
or less original. There aren't so many collector quality Jeeps left,
especially because of the kind of work they were designed to do.

With 3.73 gears, I don't think you will need an overdrive to go 60. I can
go 60 in my Wrangler in fourth, which is the straight through gear, and it
has 4.11 gears. I can even do 70, if I want, without using the overdrive.
Spend some time with a calculator, and figure out what your engine rpm would
be at 60. Then maybe you will choose a TH350, or 4.11 gears instead.

Howell Engine Developments, Inc, http://www.howellefi.com has a harness to
fit the Vortec V6 into older vehicles, with or without the 4L60E. This is
probably a better option than trying to find a carbureted V6 that would
work.

I live at 9318 feet. It's not so bad on transmissions and transfer cases.
;^)

Earle

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> 1948 CJ2A, drive-train is mostly original. 134 L-head engine, T-19
> trans, Dana 18 xfer, Dana 25 front/rear (or whatever the original,
> weakest, kind were). I had the engine rebuilt about 2 years ago. I'm
> having the trans and xfer case rebuilt now (I rebuilt them 2 years ago,
> with the engine, but did an awful job). I spent a ton of money on new
> springs and shocks, 11" brakes, brake master cyl, tie-rods, steering
> gear box and shaft, so would like to keep them.
>
> In about two years (or next major problem) I'm going to upgrade the
> drive-train, but want to start getting parts now. Mostly I want to be
> able to go 60 on the highway, but also it is getting harder to find
> parts. I also need a bit more power, because my jeep doesn't do well
> going up the mountains, with 4 people, and a small trailer packed with
> camping gear.
>
> I wish I could keep the T-19 trans and the Dana 18 xfer, especially
> since I'm having them rebuilt right now (by a guy who really knows what
> he is doing). However, I don't think they'll hold up well, especially
> in the hills, where I want to go (I live at 2,000, and need to get up
> to 9,000 feet to get away from the heat on the weekends).
>
> Here is the combination I'm thinking about, after research on this
> newsgroup and other places. The main thing I'm worried about is all of
> the electronics required. I've got an elec. ignition on my L-head, but
> that was cheap enough to buy a spare if I'm ever wondering if it goes
> bad (instead of having to take it to someone who can test it).
>
> Chevy 4.3L V6 Vortec Engine
> T400R Auto trans (actually I think the newer 4L60-E is what most
> recommend)
> Dana 300 xfer case, straight through model
> Dana 30 rear end, standard (not offset)
> Dana 30 front
> 3.73 gears in front and rear
>
> I was first looking at the older models, with the carbed engine and the
> non-electric auto trans. However, I think I'd run into the same
> problems with them, not being able to find parts, and I've heard that
> those were poor designs. Does anyone make a good V6 carbed engine, or
> has recently? How about an auto trans. without a computer? I guess I
> could go with manual, but I'd rather have an auto, and it seems nice
> not to mess with clutch linkages. I like the fact that this auto is an
> OD version also, since I want to cruise on the highway. I don't want
> to go over 60 though, I'm not crazy!
>
> I know I can get a carbed 350, V8, and find parts for it. However,
> that seems like more work because I have to change the radiator, and it
> doesn't fit as well (I love having lots of room to work under the
> hood).
>
> I put a 225 Buick V6 in a 1949 CJ2A I used to have. Didn't really like
> it, but I also didn't change anything else (trans, xfer, axles) and
> ended up blowing the T-19, and still had low top-speed (same gears).
>
> Any opinions greatly appreciated!
>



*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Can I change the gear ratios and still keep my 25 front end? The front
end has those other style of axles (not the UV joints, the ball type)
which aren't as strong as the UV style in the 30, right? Should I keep
the rear end also, and just the change the gears in the front and rear?
I was looking in a 4-wheel parts magazine last night and while they
sold several different gear ratio kits for the Dana 30, I didn't see
any for the 25/27, maybe just need to look somewhere else?

If I can't get an auto to fit, and I keep my xfer case, I'll probably
keep the T-19 also. At least until I brake it (if I do). Of course
that would mean I'd have to buy the expensive engine to tranny adapter
now, and then the tranny to xfer case later, if I do end up having to
change the trans.

Any opinion on the various 4.3L V6s? Are the electronics a mess?
Should I try to get a carbbed one, or TBI vs. multi-port. EFI and the
nice idle of a computer controlled engine sound nice, but I don't want
a rats nest under the hood and a bunch of other parts just to run the
computer. If it was all self-contained and clean, I guess it would be
fine that I have to take it to the shop for engine problems, and at
least still handle everything else myself. And hopefully those newer
engines don't have problems very often anyway, especially if I have it
all rebuilt before I install it.

Thanks again!

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> That's a Borg Warner T-90 you have. Which pretty strong providing
> you use your head and don't try to bounce it up in a wheelie for second
> gear.
> The Turbo Hydro 400 is just a little too long for your 80"
> wheelbase.
> Stick with your Dana 25 front as it has an 7.75" ring gear as
> opposed to the 7.125" in a Dana 30
> Might keep you off set rear end as the Dana 18 is as strong as the
> 20 and 300 and can use the Warn overdrive.
> YOur stock radiator is three inches thick, but you still need to
> change the outlets, might as well put in the stock Corvette four core
> cross flow fits like it was made for it.
> Your Chevy 4.3L V6 Vortec Engine may be a great choice, and
> probably easier to find than a 350" or Buick.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/

If Howell Engine Dev. can get $550 for that wiring kit for the Vortec
with elec. trans... I guess that answers the question of the
electronics being a mess. If someone is willing to pay that much for
an "easy" fix, which doesn't even look that easy, it must be a real
pain without the kit.

Are there any calculators on-line that will do the math for me? I'm
pretty good with numbers (better with numbers than words), but right
now I'm fried. I basicly took my current gear ratio, and then figured
out that the new gear ratio was 30% less (for example, don't have exact
numbers in front of me), which would translate to 30% less RPMs at the
same speed, right? I guess one problem is I don't know what the best
RPMs for the engine are, at cruising speed. I'm guessing somewhere
around 2000?

If I could get any of that "collector value" out of my jeep, if I sold
it, I would, and then buy one that someone has already hacked up.
However, the collectors don't want to pay top $, and I hate "dealing"
with people. So if I sale it I have to deal with atleast two people,
the person buying mine, and the person I buy one from. That's why I
like camping, to get away from people, and also why I don't want to get
my jeep to the point where I have to take it to someone to fix it all
the time (once a year is fine).

Earle Horton wrote:
> An original drive train has collector value, especially if the body is more
> or less original. There aren't so many collector quality Jeeps left,
> especially because of the kind of work they were designed to do.
>
> With 3.73 gears, I don't think you will need an overdrive to go 60. I can
> go 60 in my Wrangler in fourth, which is the straight through gear, and it
> has 4.11 gears. I can even do 70, if I want, without using the overdrive.
> Spend some time with a calculator, and figure out what your engine rpm would
> be at 60. Then maybe you will choose a TH350, or 4.11 gears instead.
>
> Howell Engine Developments, Inc, http://www.howellefi.com has a harness to
> fit the Vortec V6 into older vehicles, with or without the 4L60E. This is
> probably a better option than trying to find a carbureted V6 that would
> work.
>
> I live at 9318 feet. It's not so bad on transmissions and transfer cases.
> ;^)
>
> Earle
>

Yes, buying a set of gears would be a problem. The axle weak point
is right at the deferential spline, and takes a 44 to get away from:
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Mr.N44.htm
You really have the Ford truck Top loaded heavy-duty 4-speed
transmission?
I don't see a problem with the electronic fuel injection, Painless
makes the looms. I prefer just electronic ignition with a Real Holley
850 CFM double pumper, and of course there's no substitute for cubic
inches, or no replacement for my 400" displacement:
http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


wrote:
>
> Can I change the gear ratios and still keep my 25 front end? The front
> end has those other style of axles (not the UV joints, the ball type)
> which aren't as strong as the UV style in the 30, right? Should I keep
> the rear end also, and just the change the gears in the front and rear?
> I was looking in a 4-wheel parts magazine last night and while they
> sold several different gear ratio kits for the Dana 30, I didn't see
> any for the 25/27, maybe just need to look somewhere else?
>
> If I can't get an auto to fit, and I keep my xfer case, I'll probably
> keep the T-19 also. At least until I brake it (if I do). Of course
> that would mean I'd have to buy the expensive engine to tranny adapter
> now, and then the tranny to xfer case later, if I do end up having to
> change the trans.
>
> Any opinion on the various 4.3L V6s? Are the electronics a mess?
> Should I try to get a carbbed one, or TBI vs. multi-port. EFI and the
> nice idle of a computer controlled engine sound nice, but I don't want
> a rats nest under the hood and a bunch of other parts just to run the
> computer. If it was all self-contained and clean, I guess it would be
> fine that I have to take it to the shop for engine problems, and at
> least still handle everything else myself. And hopefully those newer
> engines don't have problems very often anyway, especially if I have it
> all rebuilt before I install it.
>
> Thanks again!

Differential

> Yes, buying a set of gears would be a problem. The axle weak point
> is right at the deferential spline, and takes a 44 to get away from:
> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Mr.N44.htm
> You really have the Ford truck Top loaded heavy-duty 4-speed
> transmission?
> I don't see a problem with the electronic fuel injection, Painless
> makes the looms. I prefer just electronic ignition with a Real Holley
> 850 CFM double pumper, and of course there's no substitute for cubic
> inches, or no replacement for my 400" displacement:
> http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>

Dang, so many numbers I'm getting all messed up. Sorry, I've actually
got the T-90 trans, not T-19 (they numbers sound about the same =).
The T-90 wouln't hold up with that V6, right? So I'm back to changing
the tranny at least. Thanks for the links, I'm going to take a look
right now.

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> Yes, buying a set of gears would be a problem. The axle weak point
> is right at the deferential spline, and takes a 44 to get away from:
> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Mr.N44.htm
> You really have the Ford truck Top loaded heavy-duty 4-speed
> transmission?
> I don't see a problem with the electronic fuel injection, Painless
> makes the looms. I prefer just electronic ignition with a Real Holley
> 850 CFM double pumper, and of course there's no substitute for cubic
> inches, or no replacement for my 400" displacement:
> http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>