Oil Filter relocation

I have a 1st gen RX-7 (1985 with a 12A) which my father bought at about
52k miles and I got it at 69k miles. It now has 81k on it. The issue is
that before he got it somebody broke the oil filter mount off the block
and relocated it to the right side of the radiator (see picture at
http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/Oil.../OilCooler_006). I dont think
this has had any negative effects on the engine wear or performance, the
problem is that unless the oil lines are very tightly fastened they can
pop off spilling all the oil. This has happened a few times and is
extremely annoying. The other annoyance is that the oil pressure reads
very low. At idle it reads about zero and usually reads anywhere from
15-35 psi at 3000 rpm. It never reads any higher than 35 psi. I have a
feeling that this is not accurate. Any ideas why it reads low?

What I want to do is remove the air conditioning compressor and move the
oil filter to where the compressor (which hasnt worked for years) was
located. Then I plan on using some nice hydraulic lines and quality
fittings so the lines dont come off unexpectedly. This way I dont need
to worry about dumping the oil at 65 mph and having to fix the car on
the side of the highway.

What I'm looking for is advice on how to go about doing this as well as
any suggestions or experiences. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks,

David



See the pictures at http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/OilFilter/

"David Wahl" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 1st gen RX-7 (1985 with a 12A) which my father bought at about
> 52k miles and I got it at 69k miles. It now has 81k on it. The issue is
> that before he got it somebody broke the oil filter mount off the block
> and relocated it to the right side of the radiator (see picture at
> http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/Oil.../OilCooler_006). I dont think
> this has had any negative effects on the engine wear or performance, the
> problem is that unless the oil lines are very tightly fastened they can
> pop off spilling all the oil. This has happened a few times and is
> extremely annoying. The other annoyance is that the oil pressure reads
> very low. At idle it reads about zero and usually reads anywhere from
> 15-35 psi at 3000 rpm. It never reads any higher than 35 psi. I have a
> feeling that this is not accurate. Any ideas why it reads low?
>
> What I want to do is remove the air conditioning compressor and move the
> oil filter to where the compressor (which hasnt worked for years) was
> located. Then I plan on using some nice hydraulic lines and quality
> fittings so the lines dont come off unexpectedly. This way I dont need
> to worry about dumping the oil at 65 mph and having to fix the car on
> the side of the highway.
>
> What I'm looking for is advice on how to go about doing this as well as
> any suggestions or experiences. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks,

Exactly what part of the mount was broken, the cast section of the end plate
or the alloy widget (sometimes with oil/water cooler) that the filter screws
onto? From the pic it looks like the cast section.....Oh, no!

If it's the cast bit, you are in trouble and should probably do something
about fitting some decent sized lines and moving the filter closer to the
original position.

If it's the alloy section or it's studs get one from another engine.

My main concern is the size of those lines and their length. Are they really
rated for hot oil at 80psi (approx)? Are the fittings to the cooler and
block sized correctly and without restrictions?

Any chance you have the bit that got broken off? Depending on the break it
might (at a pinch) be fixable by a very proficient welder.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

"David Wahl" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 1st gen RX-7 (1985 with a 12A) which my father bought at about
> 52k miles and I got it at 69k miles. It now has 81k on it. The issue is
> that before he got it somebody broke the oil filter mount off the block
> and relocated it to the right side of the radiator (see picture at
> http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/Oil.../OilCooler_006). I dont think
> this has had any negative effects on the engine wear or performance, the
> problem is that unless the oil lines are very tightly fastened they can
> pop off spilling all the oil. This has happened a few times and is
> extremely annoying. The other annoyance is that the oil pressure reads
> very low. At idle it reads about zero and usually reads anywhere from
> 15-35 psi at 3000 rpm. It never reads any higher than 35 psi. I have a
> feeling that this is not accurate. Any ideas why it reads low?

Miles of line, probably incorrect diameter fittings/line, those fittings may
obstructing the oil pressure sender or any number of issues.

> What I want to do is remove the air conditioning compressor and move the
> oil filter to where the compressor (which hasnt worked for years) was
> located. Then I plan on using some nice hydraulic lines and quality
> fittings so the lines dont come off unexpectedly. This way I dont need
> to worry about dumping the oil at 65 mph and having to fix the car on
> the side of the highway.

Here's something to consider, if those oil lines pop off (as you said they
have) while the engine is running the effective oil pressure to the bearings
etc goes to zero. At zero pressure damage occurs real fast, the fact it's
happened several times suggests some bearing damage has already occured
which explains the resultant low pressures.

>
> What I'm looking for is advice on how to go about doing this as well as
> any suggestions or experiences. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks,
>
> David

Just looked over the other photos which helped clarify things.

Yikes what a disgusting mess! First thing to do is get that engine clean, if
there's one thing I cant stand it's working on a messy greasy engine like
that. A clean engine is easier to maintain and will allow you to spot
problems early. Looks like you need new plugs and leads too....

It's impossible to see exactly how the fittings attach to the engine block,
but it looks like someone threaded in some large brass fittings. Looks like
the diameter isn't that bad but I'd be checking for cracks and leaks where
they were screwed in.

Dump all that rubber hose and clamp rubbish, it's really substandard and
won't contribute to engine lubrication and is unreliable.

I'm not an expert when it comes to these "later" model setups but here's
some options....

Your oil filter mount doubles as a pathetic oil cooler. See if you can fit a
proper oil cooler from one of the ealier models. It will mount directly
under the radiator.

Now you can run some decent braided oil lines to the standard oil fiiting
points (lower left timing cover and lower left rear housing). Somewhere in
the main pressure line braided hose, get a proper oil filter adapted grafted
in. Plenty of race/hydraulic places should be able to help here.

Where those brass fittings have been added, loop them using some steel line
or braided line as they are no longer required if the filter is already
"upstream" in the main pressure feed.

Close up or loop all the old water lines that fed the oil cooler, you don't
need them.

Don't pull the air con compressor, it may be fixable and you don't want to
get the EPA after you.

Hope this gives some guidance but you seen to be on the right track BUT the
first thing you really need is a good engine clean so you can actually see
what have and can work on it.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

Don't know squat about your filter but that cake looks good

The Raven wrote:

> Now you can run some decent braided oil lines to the standard oil fiiting
> points (lower left timing cover and lower left rear housing). Somewhere in
> the main pressure line braided hose, get a proper oil filter adapted grafted
> in. Plenty of race/hydraulic places should be able to help here.
>
> Where those brass fittings have been added, loop them using some steel line
> or braided line as they are no longer required if the filter is already
> "upstream" in the main pressure feed.
>

I was thinking of getting one of these kits too. Right now, I am
deciding between getting rubber oil lines and hose clamps (which come
standard with most oil filter relocation kits) or steel braided lines
with those fittings that screw over the outside of the tubing (Earl's
Auto-Fit hose ends. Can't I get a cheaper version that doesn't bother
with the fancy anodizing?). Just wondering if anybody had any opinions
as to whether the rubber lines and hose clamps will be "good enough", or
should I really go with the more expensive stuff?

Martik wrote:
> Don't know squat about your filter but that cake looks good
>
>
It was extremely good. Probably the 3 sticks of butter and many cups of
sugar....

First let me thank everyone who has replied to me.


> the EPA isn`t going to give a hoot about weather the air cond works or
> not.

The epa would probably be more concerned about my lack of a catalytic
converter, oops, good thing I dont have to pass emission tests here.

> also if you use pressure rated oil hose and 2 hose clamps you should have
> no problems at all. no need for expensive braded line. used it for years
> never had one pop off. KB
>

That's what I was planning on doing. The braided stuff would be nice but
I'm on a students budget right now (or lack thereof). I think the main
reason they popped off was due to using not so good clamps when I
replaced the old lines. The only thing I'm still paranoid about it the
pressure in the lines. It reads anywhere from zero up to about 35 psi at
the most, usually around 15. I have already replaced the pressure sender
and the oil pump was replaced awhile ago also with no effect. The
reading of zero is definitely not accurate since I have squeezed the oil
lines with my hand when the engine is running and there is quite
substantial resistance.

Does anyone know how the pressure sender works? I've heard various
stories but I don't know who to believe. My guess is that it is being
affected by the long lines and narrow fittings, hopefully it's not
giving an accurate measurement. Does anyone think that using stiffer,
pressure rated lines would improve the accuracy of the sender?

Thanks again to everybody, especially Kevin and The Raven, for all the help.

David

http://www.davidwahl.org

David Wahl wrote:

> Does anyone know how the pressure sender works? I've heard various
> stories but I don't know who to believe. My guess is that it is being
> affected by the long lines and narrow fittings, hopefully it's not
> giving an accurate measurement.


The long lines might result in a line drop, but I suspect that the
additional length would have little impact on your oil pressure. It's
just a couple of feet...

How it works? Not really. But consensus is that after about 2
decades the units tend to either go wonky or just plain fail. See the
links below.


> Does anyone think that using stiffer,
> pressure rated lines would improve the accuracy of the sender?

Don't know. But I do know that you can switch to a heavier oil
(specifically, 20w50) to raise the oil pressure... But I would first
establish for certain that what the gauge is showing is in fact accurate.



FB oil pressure gauge discussion:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=290765

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=287956

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=266517



Where the gauge plugs into the motor:
----
The oil pressure sender is located on the rear plate (cast iron) to the
right of the rear upper spark plug, on the drivers side. If you've got a
J-spec 12a engine made prior to 1981 it won't have an oil pressure
sender, just a switch to activate a light as they didn't have oil
pressure gauges until '81. You can get around this by drilling/tapping a
thread into the base of the oil filter stand (carefully, it's aluminium).
----


Installing an aftermarket gauge:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=293516

On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:27:39 -0500, David Wahl > wrote:

||I have a 1st gen RX-7 (1985 with a 12A) which my father bought at about
||52k miles and I got it at 69k miles. It now has 81k on it. The issue is
||that before he got it somebody broke the oil filter mount off the block
||and relocated it to the right side of the radiator (see picture at
||http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/Oil.../OilCooler_006). I dont think
||this has had any negative effects on the engine wear or performance, the
||problem is that unless the oil lines are very tightly fastened they can
||pop off spilling all the oil. This has happened a few times and is
||extremely annoying.

The other annoyance is that the oil pressure reads
||very low. At idle it reads about zero and usually reads anywhere from
||15-35 psi at 3000 rpm. It never reads any higher than 35 psi. I have a
||feeling that this is not accurate. Any ideas why it reads low?
||
||What I want to do is remove the air conditioning compressor and move the
||oil filter to where the compressor (which hasnt worked for years) was
||located. Then I plan on using some nice hydraulic lines and quality
||fittings so the lines dont come off unexpectedly. This way I dont need
||to worry about dumping the oil at 65 mph and having to fix the car on
||the side of the highway.
||
||What I'm looking for is advice on how to go about doing this as well as
||any suggestions or experiences. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks,

I'd put it back stock and eliminate all that nonsense. These cars are all over
the wrecking yards. You should be able to get all you need for $20 or less, and
they a re easy to remove. You need the cast aluminum piece that attaches to
the block, and the beehive oil cooler that mounts atop it. Just remove the two
water hoses from the behive, and the two 12mm (may be 13 or 14) nuts that hold
the casting to the block. Pick up 4 o-rings (National #113) and a tube of
hylomar so you can clean and reassemble the unit. And get a new oil filter.

As for the oil pressure, check your gauge by temporariy installing a mechanical
gauge in one of your oil lines, using a tee.
You can get a higher pressure relief valve from a 1993 model RX7. You drop
the oil pan, remove the old valve, replace with new, and put the pan (with new
gasket) back up. If your problem is worn bearing this won't help since it
would need volume, not pressure.
Texas Parts Guy

In rec.autos.rotary David Wahl > wrote:
> I have a 1st gen RX-7 (1985 with a 12A) which my father bought at about
> 52k miles and I got it at 69k miles. It now has 81k on it. The issue is
> that before he got it somebody broke the oil filter mount off the block
> and relocated it to the right side of the radiator (see picture at
> http://www.davidwahl.org/gallery/Oil.../OilCooler_006). I dont think
> this has had any negative effects on the engine wear or performance, the
> problem is that unless the oil lines are very tightly fastened they can
> pop off spilling all the oil. This has happened a few times and is
> extremely annoying. The other annoyance is that the oil pressure reads
> very low.

If those are standard rubber hoses, they may soften and swell in the
presence of oil. This would choke off the oil delivery, and make them very
hard to clamp in place. Why not relocate it close to where it used to be.
A visit to a 9x25 cent car wash might be a good idea.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5