ritz

BläBlä wrote:
> You need to stick with one thread. I dont know what CarKB is doing but
>it seems to be making things difficult on you.
>
>> bla bla hi again i went today to saturn dealer and show them what i learn
>> from you they dont want to listen they want me to spend money. you told me
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> days i need to bring at least 300.00 for the part n labor. waht do i need to
>> do only got 30 days
>
> Huhhhhhhhh? I went to advanceautoparts.com and found NOTHING under cam
>sensors. I went to AutoZones website and a cam sensor actually did pop
>up in the search for about $13 bucks... What is it they have for 13
>bucks??? What is it the dealership has for $163 bucks??? I haven't a
>clue because I found NO information on installing or testing a cam
>sensor in my "GM Service Information" program.
>
> What I did find is the following if you want to print it out and slap
>it down on the counter for them to read. Far be it from me to tell a
>Saturn Dealership how to work on Saturns... So I'll let the GM Manual
>Making Gods do it.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------ 1996-98 Saturn S-Series -----------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>MIL Service Engine Soon Telltale On with DTCs P0340 and/or P0341, Cam
>Sensor Circuit Performance #98-T-49A - (01/06/2003)
>(MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON Telltale On with Diagnostic Trouble Codes
>(DTCs) P0340 and/or P0341, Cam Sensor Circuit Performance (Diagnose and
>Repair as Necessary using Updated Diagnostic Information Contained in
>this Bulletin) This bulletin has been revised to incorporate the
>ignition coil assembly (P/N 1616773) as a service part and supercedes
>bulletin 98-T-49, which should be discarded.
>
>1996-1998 Saturn S-Series vehicles
>Condition
>
>Vehicle may experience the (MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON telltale On with
>DTCs P0340 and/or P0341.
>Cause
>
>DTCs P0340 and P0341 may be caused by incorrect resistance in the
>secondary ignition system. This incorrect resistance can cause the EI
>Module to incorrectly signal the cam position to the PCM.
>
>Correction
>
>The diagnostic information for DTCs P0340 and P0341 has been updated to
>included inspection of various secondary ignition components.
>
>Object Number: 886114 Size: MF
>Click here for detailed picture of above image.
>CMP SENSOR CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE (Chart 1 of 2)
>
>For complete description of circuit operation, refer to Circuit
>Description on page 6 of this bulletin.
>
>DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
>
>Important
>
>A cam pulse signal error may not effect engine operation.
>
> * Inspect EI module coil towers and plug wire connections for
>corrosion or other signs of poor retention at connections.
> * Wire resistance 1.5k to 15k ohms.
> * Wire positioning on coils 4-1-2-3.
> * Coil pack secondary resistance (tower-to-tower) 8K-15K ohms
> * Spark plug gap 1.0 mm (.040 in.)
> * Check connector at EI Module using gray male adapter (from
>connector test adapter kit J-35616A) to ensure a good mechanical
>connection at terminal D, circuit 633. Repair if needed.
>
>Notes on Diagnostic Chart 1:
>
> 1. This test measures the resistance of both spark plug wires,
>ignition coil, and the connections made between the coil towers and
>spark plug wires.
> 2. Carbon tracing on the spark plug porcelain insulator could easily
>be confused with darkened dielectric grease. To distinguish grease from
>carbon tracking, clean the spark plug insulator with a rag and solvent
>such as Saturn Brake and Choke Cleaner (P/N 21007432). Carbon tracking
>produces gray-black lines that cannot be removed from the insulator.
>
> Important
>
> After sal****er spray test is complete, engine compartment must be
>rinses thoroughly with clean water.
> 3. Use a 10 percent sal****er solution for best results. Start
>misting the EI module and spark plug terminals at the EI module first,
>then mist each spark plug wire from the EI module to the plug.
> flow chart missing
>
>Object Number: 886114 Size: MF
>Click here for detailed picture of above image.
>CMP SENSOR CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE (Chart 2 of 2)
>
>For complete description of circuit operation, refer to Circuit
>Description on page 6 of this bulletin.
>
>DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
>
>Important
>
>A cam pulse signal error may not effect engine operation.
>
> * Inspect EI module coil towers and plug connections for corrosion
>or other signs of poor retention at connections.
> * Wire resistance 1.5K to 15K ohms.
> * Wire positioning on coils 4-1-2-3.
> * Coil pack secondary resistance (tower-to-tower) 8K-15K ohms
> * Spark plug gap 1.0 mm(040 in.)
> * Check connector at EI Module using gray adapter (from connector
>test adapter kit J-35616A)
>
>Notes on Diagnostic Chart 2:
>
> 1. If this test is performed without a full power down of the PCM,
>voltage readings may not be accurate.
> 2. The PCM produces a 5 volt signal that is pulled to ground less
>than 50% of the time. Therefore, the voltage displayed on the voltmeter
>should be approximately 3 volts (in the range of 2.0 to 4.0 volts). This
>reading will vary on the voltmeter display.
> flow chart missing
>
>Object Number: 886114 Size: MF
>Click here for detailed picture of above image.
>
>The cam signal is a 5 volt signal (circuit 633) that is pulled to ground
>to inform the PCM that #4 cylinder has fired on compression. A much
>higher voltage is needed to fire a cylinder that is on the compression
>stroke. The EI module monitors this firing voltage on the #1--4 coil to
>determine if cylinder #1 or cylinder #4 is firing. This signal, along
>with the double pulse received from the CKP sensor, synchronizes fuel
>timing.
>
>Under normal operation, the 7X (CMP RESYNC) COUNTER continuously counts
>the notches in the crankshaft as it rotates, and resets to zero each
>time the CMP sensor detects the #4 cylinder firing. Therefore, the 7X
>(CMP RESYNC) COUNTER should continuously count from 0 to 14 with each
>two crankshaft revolutions. If the cam signal is missing, the 7X COUNTER
>will count to 255 and stay fixed and P0340 will set. If the cam signal
>is present too often, the counter will not reach 14 and a P0341 will
>set.
>
>If the ignition secondary (coil, pair of spark plugs wires) has
>incorrect resistance, open or corrosion in the circuit that influences
>firing voltage, the EI module can incorrectly interpret these voltages
>and cause codes P0340 and/or P0341 to set.
>Procedures
>
> 1. Remove corrosion from EI module coil tower terminals using a 3M
>Scotch-Brite fiber pad or equivalent. Do not use any solvents or
>cleaners to aid in corrosion removal. Do not contact or scratch the
>plastic sealing surfaces below the terminal. If the coil tower terminals
>are damaged by corrosion or pitting, replace coil.
> 2. Replace corroded spark plug wire(s) with new service spark plug
>wires. Add a liberal amount of dielectric grease to the coil tower
>terminals before installing new spark plug wires.
> 3. Test to endure a positive "click" noise is heard when seating the
>spark plug wire on the terminal. If a positive seating and "click" noise
>is not obtained after cleaning.
>
>Parts Requirement
>
>DOHC (LL0) Engines
>
>21024465
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinders 1 & 4)
>
>21024466
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinder 2)
>
>21024467
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinder 3)
>
>SOHC (L24) Engines
>
>21024472
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinders 1 & 4)
>
>21024473
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinder 2)
>
>21024474
>Wire Asm - Splg (Cylinder 3)
>
>All Engines
>
>21024473
>Module Asm - Elec Ign Cont
>
>16167763
>Coil Asm - Ign
>
>Important
>On 1996 vehicles, if spark plugs are replaced, and vehicle was equipped
>with 0.060 in gap plugs, all four spark plugs and "Vehicle Emissions
>Control Information Label" must be replaced. Refer to Technical
>Information Bulletin 96-T-25, "Engine Cranks but will not Start, or
>Engine Stalls Immediately After Start Followed by Extended Cranking,
>and/or Ignition Misfire Resulting in DTCs P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303,
>P0304."
>Claim Information
>
>To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period,
>submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for one of the following
>depending on repair performed:
>
>Case Type
>Description
>Labor Operation Code
>Time
>VW
>Wires, Spark Plug - Replace one or two
>J4206
>0.3 hrs
>Add:
>A. To replace all spark plug wires
>0.1 hrs
>VW
>Module, Electronic Ignition (DIS) - Replace
>J4343
>0.6 hrs
>Add:
>A. To replace all spark plug wires
>0.1 hrs
>VW
>Coil, Electronic Ignition Module - Replace
>J4345
>--
>Add:
>A. To replace each additional coil
>0.2 hrs
>B. To replace all spark plug wires
>0.1 hrs
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Here's one more thing you can print out for them.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMPRESSION SENSE IGNITION
>
> Both the SOHC and DOHC engines utilize Compression Sense Ignition,
>which eliminates the need for a camshaft position sensor. The EI module
>has sensing circuitry that detects when cylinder #4 has fired on its
>compression stroke and relays this information to the PCM. The PCM can
>then correctly synchronize the fuel injectors for sequential fuel
>injection.
>
> The EI module uses capacitive pickup plates located under the 1/4
>coil to determine when cylinder #4 has fired on compression. These
>plates are used to differentiate the polarity and voltage amplitude
>difference between the 1/4 secondary ignition circuits. Since each coil
>tower is of opposite polarity and the waste spark (2-4 kV) generally
>fires before the compression spark (10-25 kV), the module can determine
>cylinder #4 compression. When the EI module detects a positive to
>negative polarity sequence and a high negative voltage spike, it will
>pull the PCM 5-volt cam signal circuit to ground. The PCM knows that
>cylinder #4 had just fired on its compression stroke when this
>transition occurs.
>
>The EI module, however, cannot always detect when cylinder #4 has fired
>on compression. These occurrences include the following:
>
> * During deceleration
> * Very low engine load conditions when engine is running
> * If a secondary ignition problem occurs on cylinder #1 or #4
>
>Too few cam pulses (cam signal circuit not being pulled to ground) are a
>result of decreased cylinder #4 secondary resistance or increased
>cylinder #1 secondary resistance. Too many cam pulses, cam signal
>circuit being pulled to ground too often, are a result of decreased
>cylinder #1 secondary resistance or increased cylinder #4 secondary
>resistance.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
whats knock sensor

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