Simultaneous Application of Gas and Brake Pedals

John David Galt wrote:

>> I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>> Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>> steering - but, man, you should have tried to parallel park that thing
>> - quit4e a feat even for a teenager. I think there would be similar
>> problems selling a modern vehicle with unpowered disk brakes as
>> selling ones without power steering just due to human factors.
>
>
> I'd have paid extra to get my car without power steering, but that wasn't
> even an available option. Power steering is great until your engine
> stalls in the middle of an intersection; then even a wrestler will have
> trouble avoiding a wreck.

Heh heh! You wouldn't say that if you drove the vehicle I'm talking
about. Again - picture the size and weight of a Suburban with no power
steering. Perhaps the steering gear could have been geared a little
lower, but parallel parking that thing was a chore and a half (due to
size and lack of power assist both)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

QDurham wrote:
>>I think there would be similar
>>problems selling a modern vehicle with unpowered disk brakes as selling
>>ones without power steering just due to human factors.
>
>
> My 1946 Cessna had completely reliable, effective, simple, light, cheap,
> unboosted hydraulic disc brakes.
>
> My understanding is that a major problem with disc brakes is that they don't
> work well as automotive parking brakes. Discs tend to loosen as they cool
> (exactly what nobody wants) while drum brakes tend to tighten as they cool.

The e-brake on my Camaro uses the rear disc brakes and I've never had a
problem. In fact, I prefer that to separate drum brakes since I rarely
use it, easier to park in first gear.

> More better.
> Quent
Ulf

Bill Putney wrote:

> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The reality of modern consumer vehicles that will be driven by
>>> quite a range of ages, mental quickness, and physical strength.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right, 'cause women and little old men *never* drove before what you
>> arbitrarily consider the "modern" age. Pfft.
>
>
> Oh - I'm sorry - I thought we were living in the present. How silly of
> me to exclude cars from 20 and 30 years ago from the here and now.
>
>>> I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>>> Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>>> steering
>>
>>
>>
>> No, the original owner decided it didn't need power steering. In any
>> event, that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, which deals with *brakes*.
>
>
> No - it was a poorly designed standard package that also included an AMC
> automatic transmission with no external cooling - fluid needed changing
> every 20,000 miles - you knew it needed it when the tranny started
> slipping. They quit making them for a reason.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Bill Putney wrote:

> >>The reality of modern consumer vehicles that will be driven by quite a
> >>range of ages, mental quickness, and physical strength.

> > Right, 'cause women and little old men *never* drove before what you
> > arbitrarily consider the "modern" age. Pfft.
>
> Oh - I'm sorry - I thought we were living in the present.

Feeling slow again, Putney? Your claim that "modern" consumer vehicles
"...will be driven by quite a range of ages, mental quickness and physical
strength" implies that such was not the case before the "modern" age, and
you're wrong.

> >>I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
> >>Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
> >>steering

> > No, the original owner decided it didn't need power steering. In any
> > event, that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, which deals with
> > *brakes*.

> No - it was a poorly designed standard package

....which means the original owner didn't order power steering. QED.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Bill Putney wrote:

>> I used to drive an International Travelall [...] that also included an
>> AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling

> I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
> ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)

Putney's remembering things that never existed. AMC bought their
automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s
through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, QDurham wrote:

>>> My understanding is that a major problem with disc brakes is that they
>>> don't work well as automotive parking brakes.

>> This has been solved for decades: A small drum brake exclusively for
>> parking brake usage in the "hat" section of one or both sets of discs.

> Exactly. Problem solved -- at some minor complication. I was told that
> Jag solved this problem by "twisting/warping" the disc brakes.
> Thoughts?

Jaguars don't need brakes. You don't need to stop a car that won't start.

>Jaguars don't need brakes. You don't need to stop a car that won't star

Naughty naughty!

Quent

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>>>> I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>>>> Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>>>> steering
>>
>> ...it was a poorly designed standard package that also included an
>> AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling - fluid needed
>> changing every 20,000 miles - you knew it needed it when the tranny
>> started slipping. They quit making them for a reason.
>
> I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
> ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)

This was a '65. I was told at the time that it was an AMC. Don't
recall if it was a dealer who told me that or someone else. They must
have changed later.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
>
>
>>>>The reality of modern consumer vehicles that will be driven by quite a
>>>>range of ages, mental quickness, and physical strength.
>
>
>>>Right, 'cause women and little old men *never* drove before what you
>>>arbitrarily consider the "modern" age. Pfft.
>>
>>Oh - I'm sorry - I thought we were living in the present.
>
>
> Feeling slow again, Putney? Your claim that "modern" consumer vehicles
> "...will be driven by quite a range of ages, mental quickness and physical
> strength" implies that such was not the case before the "modern" age, and
> you're wrong.

You inferred where I did not imply. I simply made a statement about the
modern reality. Anything you read into it beyond that is up to you.

>>>>I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>>>>Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>>>>steering
>
>
>>>No, the original owner decided it didn't need power steering. In any
>>>event, that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, which deals with
>>>*brakes*.
>
>
>>No - it was a poorly designed standard package
>
>
> ...which means the original owner didn't order power steering. QED.

Obviously (I guess that's what "QED" means?).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>>Bill Putney wrote:
>
>
>>>I used to drive an International Travelall [...] that also included an
>>>AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling
>
>
>>I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
>>ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)
>
>
> Putney's remembering things that never existed.

False - I remember what I was told, and it probably was true.

> AMC bought their
> automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s
> through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).

The same tranny apparently was used in AMC's - possibly with certain
AMC-specific options. In either case where does the "never existed"
part come in?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')