Simultaneous Application of Gas and Brake Pedals

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>>>> I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>>>> Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>>>> steering
>>
>> ...it was a poorly designed standard package that also included an
>> AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling - fluid needed
>> changing every 20,000 miles - you knew it needed it when the tranny
>> started slipping. They quit making them for a reason.
>
> I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
> ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)

This was a '65. I was told at the time that it was an AMC. Don't
recall if it was a dealer who told me that or someone else. They must
have changed later.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
>
>
>>>>The reality of modern consumer vehicles that will be driven by quite a
>>>>range of ages, mental quickness, and physical strength.
>
>
>>>Right, 'cause women and little old men *never* drove before what you
>>>arbitrarily consider the "modern" age. Pfft.
>>
>>Oh - I'm sorry - I thought we were living in the present.
>
>
> Feeling slow again, Putney? Your claim that "modern" consumer vehicles
> "...will be driven by quite a range of ages, mental quickness and physical
> strength" implies that such was not the case before the "modern" age, and
> you're wrong.

You inferred where I did not imply. I simply made a statement about the
modern reality. Anything you read into it beyond that is up to you.

>>>>I used to drive an International Travelall (similar in size to a Chevy
>>>>Suburban). Unfortunately the mfgr. figured it didn't need power
>>>>steering
>
>
>>>No, the original owner decided it didn't need power steering. In any
>>>event, that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, which deals with
>>>*brakes*.
>
>
>>No - it was a poorly designed standard package
>
>
> ...which means the original owner didn't order power steering. QED.

Obviously (I guess that's what "QED" means?).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>>Bill Putney wrote:
>
>
>>>I used to drive an International Travelall [...] that also included an
>>>AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling
>
>
>>I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
>>ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)
>
>
> Putney's remembering things that never existed.

False - I remember what I was told, and it probably was true.

> AMC bought their
> automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s
> through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).

The same tranny apparently was used in AMC's - possibly with certain
AMC-specific options. In either case where does the "never existed"
part come in?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:

> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> I used to drive an International Travelall [...] that also included an
>>>> AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling
>>
>>
>>
>>> I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
>>> ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)
>>
>>
>>
>> Putney's remembering things that never existed.
>
>
> False - I remember what I was told, and it probably was true.
>
>> AMC bought their
>> automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s
>> through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).
>
>
> The same tranny apparently was used in AMC's - possibly with certain
> AMC-specific options. In either case where does the "never existed"
> part come in?
>

I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker Flightomatic
(made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty version of that
tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that would probably
have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they would have used the
non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that this is all from furry
memory, so don't take anything I say as gospel. I also don't know a
whole lot about the AMC version of that tranny.)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker Flightomatic
> (made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty version of that
> tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that would probably
> have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they would have used the
> non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that this is all from furry
> memory, so don't take anything I say as gospel. I also don't know a
> whole lot about the AMC version of that tranny.)

Thanks, Nate. That would go along with what I was told. Also strange
about no water cooling was that the Travelall (or as my dad called it,
the Troubleall) was popular and known for its great trailer towing
abilities (you used to see those huge Air Streams behind them), though
most likely there was an optional "trailer towing package" that mine
didn't have.

I did mitigate the ATF problem by installing a cooling coil behind the
rear axle. The tranny had fittings for a cooling loop, but there was
simply a short metal 'U' pipe from the gozinta and gozouta fittings. I
removed that pipe and ran rubber lines to the cooler.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:

> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>>
>> I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker
>> Flightomatic (made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty
>> version of that tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that
>> would probably have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they
>> would have used the non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that
>> this is all from furry memory, so don't take anything I say as
>> gospel. I also don't know a whole lot about the AMC version of that
>> tranny.)
>
>
> Thanks, Nate. That would go along with what I was told. Also strange
> about no water cooling was that the Travelall (or as my dad called it,
> the Troubleall) was popular and known for its great trailer towing
> abilities (you used to see those huge Air Streams behind them), though
> most likely there was an optional "trailer towing package" that mine
> didn't have.
>
> I did mitigate the ATF problem by installing a cooling coil behind the
> rear axle. The tranny had fittings for a cooling loop, but there was
> simply a short metal 'U' pipe from the gozinta and gozouta fittings. I
> removed that pipe and ran rubber lines to the cooler.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

Now that is bizarre. the tranny I'm thinking of had no provisions for
external cooling at all in standard form, it was cooled through shaped
fins on the torque converter. The HD version *did* have cooling line
fittings, but then it was always used with the appropriate radiator with
built in cooler. (speaking for Studebakers only, not any other vehicles.)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker
>>> Flightomatic (made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty
>>> version of that tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that
>>> would probably have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they
>>> would have used the non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that
>>> this is all from furry memory, so don't take anything I say as
>>> gospel. I also don't know a whole lot about the AMC version of that
>>> tranny.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Nate. That would go along with what I was told. Also strange
>> about no water cooling was that the Travelall (or as my dad called it,
>> the Troubleall) was popular and known for its great trailer towing
>> abilities (you used to see those huge Air Streams behind them), though
>> most likely there was an optional "trailer towing package" that mine
>> didn't have.
>>
>> I did mitigate the ATF problem by installing a cooling coil behind the
>> rear axle. The tranny had fittings for a cooling loop, but there was
>> simply a short metal 'U' pipe from the gozinta and gozouta fittings.
>> I removed that pipe and ran rubber lines to the cooler.
>>
>> Bill Putney
>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>> adddress with the letter 'x')
>
>
> Now that is bizarre. the tranny I'm thinking of had no provisions for
> external cooling at all in standard form, it was cooled through shaped
> fins on the torque converter. The HD version *did* have cooling line
> fittings, but then it was always used with the appropriate radiator with
> built in cooler. (speaking for Studebakers only, not any other vehicles.)
>
> nate

Well apparently the IH factory got the HD version for other beefed up
internals and they simply did not put the cooling loop in, which it
needed as evidenced by the fluid cooking every 20k. Perhaps that would
have been part of the trailer towing package.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Bill Putney wrote:

> > AMC bought their automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the
> > early mid '60s through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).
>
> In either case where does the "never existed" part come in?

The part where there was any such a thing as an "AMC automatic
transmission".

AMC and RAMBLER used tranny's that did not have extarnal cooling through the
sixties. The "Typhoon six" which is now called 4.0 liter in Jeeps was
orginally sold with Borg Warners. The V8 versions had a goofy finned Tourque
converters. The Heavy Duty or Torque Tube Transmissions on Trucks and early
sixties V-8's were even more "Special".

I've got both versions downstairs in my garage if u got a hankerin fer a
picture

Torqueflight 904's 998's and 727's were used post 1971.



"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> >> Nate Nagel wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker
> >>> Flightomatic (made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty
> >>> version of that tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that
> >>> would probably have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they
> >>> would have used the non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that
> >>> this is all from furry memory, so don't take anything I say as
> >>> gospel. I also don't know a whole lot about the AMC version of that
> >>> tranny.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks, Nate. That would go along with what I was told. Also strange
> >> about no water cooling was that the Travelall (or as my dad called it,
> >> the Troubleall) was popular and known for its great trailer towing
> >> abilities (you used to see those huge Air Streams behind them), though
> >> most likely there was an optional "trailer towing package" that mine
> >> didn't have.
> >>
> >> I did mitigate the ATF problem by installing a cooling coil behind the
> >> rear axle. The tranny had fittings for a cooling loop, but there was
> >> simply a short metal 'U' pipe from the gozinta and gozouta fittings.
> >> I removed that pipe and ran rubber lines to the cooler.
> >>
> >> Bill Putney
> >> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> >> adddress with the letter 'x')
> >
> >
> > Now that is bizarre. the tranny I'm thinking of had no provisions for
> > external cooling at all in standard form, it was cooled through shaped
> > fins on the torque converter. The HD version *did* have cooling line
> > fittings, but then it was always used with the appropriate radiator with
> > built in cooler. (speaking for Studebakers only, not any other
vehicles.)
> >
> > nate
>
> Well apparently the IH factory got the HD version for other beefed up
> internals and they simply did not put the cooling loop in, which it
> needed as evidenced by the fluid cooking every 20k. Perhaps that would
> have been part of the trailer towing package.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:38:27 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>Bill Putney wrote:
>
>> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I used to drive an International Travelall [...] that also included an
>>>>> AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the
>>>> ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Putney's remembering things that never existed.
>>
>>
>> False - I remember what I was told, and it probably was true.
>>
>>> AMC bought their
>>> automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s
>>> through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).
>>
>>
>> The same tranny apparently was used in AMC's - possibly with certain
>> AMC-specific options. In either case where does the "never existed"
>> part come in?
>>
>
>I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker Flightomatic
>(made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty version of that
>tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that would probably
>have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they would have used the
>non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that this is all from furry
>memory, so don't take anything I say as gospel. I also don't know a
>whole lot about the AMC version of that tranny.)
>
>nate

My memory is about the same. In the late 60s they were using a
Borg-Warner auto. It shifted firmly and early compared to later day
automatics. I really liked AMC's drive trains but can't say I was
much impressed by the bodies. Lots of vehicles used air cooled ATs
back then, I know my Mom's 64 Chevelle used an air cooled powerglide
behind a HO 283. When it shifted at WOT the whole car jumped.
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789