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73 Spider - SPICA



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 30th 05, 07:45 AM
~Zaitsev
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I finally looked at the thermostatic actuator. It looks like its been
disabled. The copper tubing is missing from the part that bolts onto
the intake manifold to the FI pump.

I didn't look under the air filter at the FI pump to see if it had the
'dummy' actuator, tho.

So, should I replace it?

Another question, now. And I appreciate your patience with me.

When I change the oil, how many quarts/liters should I add. I suspect
the oil dip stick is not the original. I've added what the book says
(11.6 pints) but the dip stick still says its low.

Thanks again.


W Roberts
San Antonio, TX
Ads
  #12  
Old May 30th 05, 09:20 AM
~Zaitsev
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PS.....It's a 2000cc.
  #13  
Old May 30th 05, 09:58 AM
Catman
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~Zaitsev wrote:

> PS.....It's a 2000cc.


<fx: searches memory>

Think it's about 6.5l What that works out to in quarts or pints is anyone's
geuss, since I don't know if you're using america measures.

What makes you think it's not the original stick? We could probably get the
measures off an original straight four engine which would give you a pretty
good geuss as to if the ones on your stic are right.

I have a TS variant (8v which is pretty much identical) outside right now.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #14  
Old May 30th 05, 05:35 PM
~Zaitsev
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>
>Think it's about 6.5l What that works out to in quarts or pints is anyone's
>geuss, since I don't know if you're using america measures.
>
>What makes you think it's not the original stick? We could probably get the
>measures off an original straight four engine which would give you a pretty
>good geuss as to if the ones on your stic are right.
>
>I have a TS variant (8v which is pretty much identical) outside right now.



Thanks. Finally got it. I guess the stick is correct.

I was wondering about the FI pump, tho. This book I have says to
'knock off $1,000' if the plastic cap is missing' from some adjustment
part. Where is this 'cap' supposed to be? It's not clear by the
diagrams/pix in the book.

Just curious.
  #15  
Old May 30th 05, 06:41 PM
0_Qed
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~Zaitsev wrote:

.............
> I finally looked at the thermostatic actuator. It looks like its been
> disabled. The copper tubing is missing from the part that bolts onto
> the intake manifold to the FI pump.


"This" would indicate that your Spica is running in full_rich mode ,
all the time.
;_(

............
> I didn't look under the air filter at the FI pump to see if it had the
> 'dummy' actuator, tho.


???
Whutza "dummy" actuator ???

...........
> So, should I replace it?


Yes,
and sooner the better.


........
???
'Terminology' is always a problem ... ;_(

The thermo actuator sub_assembly should consist of 3 main pieces ...
beginning =at= the Spica pump ...
1. the 'aft'located , brass(?) cylindirical section, small copper tube
exiting
... "this", screwed to the Spica pump via a small, oval plate
2. the small dia copper(??) tube leading up to the "end" that is placed
into
... the engine coolant ... I forget "where" ...
3. the remote "end" of this sub_assembly , located in the engine block ,
.. I "think" using a simialar sized plate as #1 ...

...............
??replace?? it ...

With ?what? ... :-)

"New" probably not available ...
"Used" probably suffers also from 'internal_material' leakage

.........
Me??
I'd find some =stiff=, push_pull capable , motor cycle, sheathed cable ,
cobble/kludge up a =manual= 'choke' device .

The sub_assembly 'end' , that fits to the Spica pump ,
is about all you need to fab such a device ...

Carefully cut away the brass(??) cylindical , upper portion
=just= enuf ...
until you expose, & can 'see',
the internal 'section' of the steel(??) button
that exits from the bottom of the 'part' ...
I think I recall using a modler's razor saw ...
kept cutting 'back' in 1/16" slices ...
till I could
.. 'see' the end of the "button" , down in the "hole" ...
.. force the "button" out of the brass cylinder .

I opined that I wanted enuf of a 'hole' left =in= the brass cyl
to completely 'capture' (my soon_to_be) brazed butt_joint ...
wasnt too worried about capturing the "button" so it wouldnt
fall into the pump ... :-) ... my braze joint did 'that'.
I did want the 'joint' captured(enclosed) by the 'walls' of the hole.

With "button" out of the cylinder
sil_braze/solder the 1/8" dia +\- , cable onto the button 'head' ...
a good butt joint ... strong enuf to 'take' the push_pull stress.
You'll have to =really= clean the steel strands of the cable
to get 'it' to braze to the steel button ... probably use a good 'sb'
flux.

You 'want' the cable strands 'embedded' in the braze matrix,
=and= ,
the braze well bonded to the 1/8" inch dia button 'top' .
And 'strait' away, in linear fashion, please.

I think I must have wrapped the loose cable strands with a bit of wire,
to keep 'them' neatly/tightly bundled , while brazing.
Ground the 'wrap_wire' away 'later'.

Since the butt_joint was fully 'captured' in the remaining hole,
in the brass 'part',
I wasnt too worried about the 'butt joint ' getting sidewize stress ...
I 'did' have to grind the 'joint' to fit the 'hole' neatly ...

I hoped that the 1/8th inch diamenter butt_joint was strong enuf to
survive
a push/pull stress on "it" ...
Seems 'so' , I never had to re_do it . "In Use" for =many= years
thereafter.

This "button" is a moving 'part',
inside the lower, brass "cyl" , screwed to the Spica pump ,
.... a "piston" ??? , driven by the heat expanded 'internal_material' ...
???
which "button" bears upon a lever, internal to the Spica pump ...
'such' lever adjusting the F/A mix for changing engine temps ...

Added,
this button 'end' is also probably where the "internal_material(IM)"
leaks out ,
over time.

:-)
This 'IM' was most likely some sort of silicone fluid ...
I never looked into a 'replacement' material.
From 'calculations' I tried ,
using measurements of the 'chambers' at both ends of the sub_assembly ,
'silicone' fluid seemed a =likely= expansion/contraction fluid .
Dunno, really.

....................
Back on 'track' ...

Since a "button" push, upon the internal lever, equated to leaning out
the F/A mix ,
and a "pull" equated to a rich F/A mix ...
"this" would 'translate' directly/nicely to a cab_located "push/pull"
choke knob .

In a =PREVIOUS= post ,
I =ERRONEOUSLY= noted that the external "lever"
was for 'purpose' of reversing the choke 'push/pull' action ...
=bummer=, entirely =wrong=.
The external 'lever' was
for "purpose" of externally mounting a spring-return to "home"
for the cable , and the button.
My 'bad'.

Not being entirely sure about returning the pump internal lever to it's
"home"
position ... rich F/A mix,
I decided to add a spring_loaded, fulcrum_lever, =externally=,
atop my 'kludge'.

An 'ascii' drawing ...
two(2) potential 'return spring' locations , '1' & '2' ...
"0----x----o" being the external fulcrum_lever -


.. spring-1 cable
.. v v
.. | |
.. | |
.. o-----x----0 ... "x" being the fulcrum lever axle , about
which
.. | | both o's rotated
.. | |
.. spring-2 v
.. button
.. |
.. |
.. v
.. lever_end, inside the pump

I recall that I placed a spring-return at [spring-1] location above ,
not being quite sure that the Spica internal 'lever' would
be strong enuf to pull_return the cable to it's 'home' position ,
and
return the internal pump lever to it's internal,
downward_most,
'home' , cold_engine, rich F/A mix position.


The internal, Spica pump 'lever' is probably spring_loaded
to return the internal lever to "full_rich", 'home' position ... cant
recall.

You'll find "out" when you open up the 'pump' ... :-)

"It" stands to ?reason? the internal Spica pump "lever" =is= spring
loaded
to return "it" to 'full_rich" position ...
the contracting/hrinking 'fluid' should pull the "button" back up the
brass cyl,
the spring loaded, pump_internal lever, to "follow" this buttom movement
..

I do recall that my 1st external f_lever worked well,
never needed to fab a new 'lever' with differing moment arms ...
I think I must have measured the internal pump 'lever' movement
distance,
done the math/geometry ...
mounted my external spring-return in [spring-1] position
such that both cable, and "button",
were =COLD= positioned, in full_rich F/A mix 'position,
on a cold engine ...
fabbed my 1st 'lever' to "that" .

Phew!

I did my "work" with the pump on the 'bench' ...
had the engine crank, and cams , positioned for pump re_install ...
documented.

There ?may? have been mating 'postioning' marks on the Spica pump drive
....
cant recall ...
If NOT , I put `em there. :-) Documented too.

Hindsight suggests I could have 'done' the mod with the pump =on=
the engine ...

.....................
> Another question, now. And I appreciate your patience with me.
>
> When I change the oil, how many quarts/liters should I add. I suspect
> the oil dip stick is not the original. I've added what the book says
> (11.6 pints) but the dip stick still says its low.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> W Roberts
> San Antonio, TX


;_(
Catman mite have had the easy answer ...

Try a stiff wire to measure the max "depth" of the pan 'sump' ...
compare with "that" found on your dip_stick ...

Find the piston stroke in the 'RTFM' ...
half 'below', & half above, the crank shaft ctr ...
get out & get 'under' ...
estimate the lowest point in the crank stroke ... from ctr of the crank
pully,
allowing for estimated radius of crank rod journal counter_weight
'throw' ...
"see" if your max oil top_level is "just" below that ...

Else ... :-)
take the pan down ...
measure it.
Nah ... just kidding.

Ed
  #16  
Old May 30th 05, 08:16 PM
alfistagj
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"~Zaitsev" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> I finally looked at the thermostatic actuator. It looks like its been
> disabled. The copper tubing is missing from the part that bolts onto
> the intake manifold to the FI pump.
>
> I didn't look under the air filter at the FI pump to see if it had the
> 'dummy' actuator, tho.
>
> So, should I replace it?
>


The plunger of the TA expands when the cooling fluid heats up and in this
way reduces the amount of fuel.
Running with a defective TA in "cold" position means that you will always
drive "too rich"; next to a high fuel use the bad result can be petrol
mixing with the lube oil which decreases the lubrication of the engine
(damage to bearings and the internal of the Spica pump) as well as bad
firing (damage to the pistons)
As you live in a warm country you could opt for a dummy TA that avoids the
too rich mixture (quite easy to make yourself; see i.e.
www.alfamontreal.info)
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Now:
Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
And former owner of:
156SW / 2 155's / 75 / Giulietta / 2 33's /
3 Sud's / Alfetta GT / Montreal / 2000GTV /
1300GTJ / 2 Giulia Super's


  #17  
Old May 31st 05, 05:21 AM
~Zaitsev
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 13:41:37 -0400, 0_Qed >
wrote:


>Whutza "dummy" actuator ???


Saw an article that said: "replace the TA with the Alfa Ricambi "Sure
Start" mechanical actuator". I have no idea what this is and hope
someone can clarify. I wouldn't consider buying a pig in a poke.

If I opt to replace the TA, what can I expect, timewise and
workwise....keeping in mind that the last car I worked on was a 1960
Alpine Sunbeam (when it was relatively new). And I wish I still had
it.

Thanks again.

W Roberts
San Antonio, TX

  #18  
Old May 31st 05, 05:38 PM
0_Qed
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~Zaitsev wrote:
> >Whutza "dummy" actuator ???

> Saw an article that said: "replace the TA with the Alfa Ricambi "Sure
> Start" mechanical actuator". I have no idea what this is and hope
> someone can clarify. I wouldn't consider buying a pig in a poke.


:-)

No idea 'what' that device mite 'be'.

It doesnt sound like anything that would 'temp_regulate' your F/A mix.

Me??
I'd remove the TA body,
replace it with a simple, blank plate, w/mach screw+lock-nut, fixed
"adjust" ...
use a block heater to heat 'it' up a bit to start it.
Let the internal 'lever' be "at" it's downward, leaned-out F/A mix
position,
via screw-adjust.

A well-cleaned wood dowel, + a dbl-edged safty razor ,
aughta give you the "throw" of the internal Spica pump 'lever' ...
the two(2) razor cuts on the wood dowel ,
vern_caliper the 'distance' twixt the two(2) razor cuts.
Close enuf.

................
> If I opt to replace the TA, what can I expect,


..........
timewise

A 'day' of 'fitting' , maybe.

Visit a "bike" shop , find some really stiff, sheathed 'push/pull' cable
....
enuf to go from the TA , and on into the cab ...
( vertically 'up' & 'out', and 90_deg bend into cab )

I have strong 'recall' that the dia of the TA piston was 'near' that
of the stranded cable dia ... 1/8" +\- .

I cant recall what I used for a "cab_end" handle ...
the bike shop mite have "one". (motorcycle)



and
.............
workwise....

A brazing torch, a few hand tools, a bench grinder ...
a razor saw suitable for brass.

Ask the bike shop about 'butt' brazing/soldering the inner, stranded
cable to the (flat) end of the TA's internal "piston" ...
the "button" is the end that 'protrudes' ,
the remainder of the piston is 'up' inside the TA body.

You dont need to "slice" all that far till you can 'reveal' the piston
cylinder ... stop 'there' ... find & fab some kinda 'dust-boot' to fit
the juncture of sheathed_cable & TA body 'top' ...
an old rubber spark plug boot ???
Small dia hose clamp 'it' tite.

'They' may have a few brazing tricks , mite even do it for you at modest
cost.
Make sure that the bike shop understands that you need the cable strands
=tite=
when/after its brazed.
I was in G_School when I made mine, had a whole machine lab at my
disposal.
All manner of metal working 'artizans' too.

I used the razor saw to slice off the TA end till I could 'see' the
piston
seated down in the barrel of the TA ... stopped "there" ...
punched out the piston to work on it.
I cant recall how/if the piston was =captured= , in the body of the TA.
A pc of 1/8th drill rod mite make a good punch.

I may have made a few test brazings, on "similar" scrap ...
to test out the strength of the butt braze joint ... cant recall.
There 'was' a TO testing machine in the 'lab' ... bit expensive for a
home shop.
In any 'event' ... it worked for years , still worked when I gave my
Spyder to Yung Sun ... worked well till he sold it.

I think the real ?secret? is making the butt_joint braze/weld ,
keeping the strands of the cable =tight= while brazing ...
I recall I used a pc of wire to keep them =tight= stranded ,
ground 'it' away after.
Made sure the tite-stranded 'strands' were ground off square ,
made sure the strands were well 'captured' in the braze matrix.

Keep the 'piston' and the cable in_line, linear, strait ...
so as not to 'motion' bind
when its placed back into the TA barrel ... the braze joint ground to
'fit'.

From "there", its just a PIA matter to fit
an external, fulcrum_levered, return-spring to assure the cable gets
pushed
back up it's sheath ... dont depend upon the Spica pump internal
spring-load
lever to do 'that' ...

You mite possibly not even need the external spring-return ...
If your cable+sheath is "of" the proper friction level ,
you mite not need a "return" function.

I 'suspect' I wanted to also assure that the spring-returned TA 'piston'
did not over-drive the pump-internal lever downward ... too far ...
may have added an adjustable =stop= to the external lever kludge.

Wouldnt "it" have been nice if I coulda found my original 'notes' ...
which I may not have even made.
<hint> <hint> <hint> <hint>


Try leaving the Spica pump on the engine ...
make sure =NO= crapola falls into 'it' ... none/nada/zero/nfw.
Thoroughly =WASH/CLEAN= the =PUMP= before any attempt to remove the TA
body.
"this" mite add a few hours to the fittment ...
but save you the time to 'doc' the crank/cam/pump positions.

'Internally', the Spica pump deals with tolerances in the 0.0001ths ...
yet another reason to keep the engine lube oil =clean=.

.............
> keeping in mind that the last car I worked on was a 1960
> Alpine Sunbeam (when it was relatively new). And I wish I still had
> it.


:-)
Had one too.
Always yearned for the V8 Tiger ,
but ...
saw too many, on the end of a tow hook, crumpled.
Finally figured out that I was too fragile to suffer that kinda abuse.
Got a few more hp out of it with a major over_bore and a hand-made
copper
head gasket, Webber side drafts .

Not 'near' the side_wize "driver" that the Spyder is ... nor the GT too.
I was never 'quite' comfortable drifting the Sunbeam(S) , rite or left
....
Got so I could do fairly precise 180's ,
within the width of a 2_lane road,
with an Alfa.

The 'S' finally went to Yung Sun in hi_school ... a 1st string defensive
tackle ...
I probably donwanna know about his "cavorts" & "debauches".
A 210-lb, heavy weight wrestler, runner up in the CT state finals.
'Me?', jealous ?? ... nah. <VBG>
By 'then',
I had a 4_dr 1600cc Alfa Berlena(sp?) ... could run circles around him.

> Thanks again.
> W Roberts
> San Antonio, TX


Try [escook @ worldpath.net] ... =less= the two(2) embedded spaces , to
contact me.

Sorry `bout my =bummer= , original Spica 'post' ...
my neuron didnt quite 'fire' well on that one.

The internal 'lever' [down] is the normal, leaned-out F/A mix, lever
position ,
pushed 'down' by the TA piston(button)
when the TA "fluid" expands with increasing engine heat .
The internal 'lever' [up] is the F/A rich mix ,
'lever' following the retracted(ing) piston,
given contraction of the cooling(ed) "fluid".

I'd 'suspect' that the up/down 'range' of the 'lever' motion
is a =fixed= distance,
determined by the 'parts' that constitute
the original, Spica factory parts assemblage.

"There" ... :-)
I think I got 'that' correct.

............
Added,
I cant recall any "plastic" cover , ... port 'inspection' cover ,
anywhere around/near/on the pump ...
????
It doesnt stand to ?reason? that Spica would 'fit' such a cover ...
given the sensititivity of the pump.

Catman ... you 'there' ???
Is there 'such' a cover ???
The "one" that merits a $1000 price reduction, if missing.

Ed
  #19  
Old May 31st 05, 05:47 PM
Catman
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0_Qed wrote:

<much snippec>
> It doesnt stand to ?reason? that Spica would 'fit' such a cover ...
> given the sensititivity of the pump.
>
> Catman ... you 'there' ???
> Is there 'such' a cover ???
> The "one" that merits a $1000 price reduction, if missing.


Absolutely no idea. My experience with SPICA is entirely
theoretical.........

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #20  
Old May 31st 05, 08:23 PM
alfistagj
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"0_Qed" > schreef in bericht
...
> ~Zaitsev wrote:


> ???
> Whutza "dummy" actuator ???
>


A "dummy" is something that looks like something, but isn't.
In this case a kind of screw that you can put in place of the defective TA
that presses down the lever in the Spica pump so the setting is "warm"
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Now:
Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
And former owner of:
156SW / 2 155's / 75 / Giulietta / 2 33's /
3 Sud's / Alfetta GT / Montreal / 2000GTV /
1300GTJ / 2 Giulia Super's


 




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