puff of white smoke on inital startup ?

Courtney,
Sounds like a coolant leak to me. Probably the easier leak fix would be a
head gasket replacement (if the leak is there), or a turbo replacement (- if
it's used you can probably get a turbo for cheap (www.car-part.com)
Engine leak: Try this test: get a fair sized pickle jar - without the
pickles in it of course ;-) - and hold the open end towards the tailpipe
when it's emmitting the plume. When you get a fair amount of condensation
in the jar, put it in the freezer overnight - if the condensate has frozen,
it's water. If it is unfrozen, it's coolant. If it's green, you didn't
wash the pickle juice out before the test .......You can also try a
compression test with the engine hot - large variations even within the
allowable pressure range can mean a coolant leak. Then there's the usual
checks - oil in the coolant, water in the oil, whitish discoloring of the
spark plugs. After the car has run at operating temperature for a while,
pull the plugs and hold an inspection mirror over the plug holes - fog is
coolant leakage into the cylinder.
All in all, it doesn't sound good. Letting an engine coolant leak go will
eventually destroy the engine, as the coolant washes the oil off the
cylinder walls and enlarges the bore through metal:metal contact.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - don't ask me how I know.....(head gasket replaced)
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Courtney Thomas" > wrote in message
...
> My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
> smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
> startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably
> has dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.
>
> From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?
>
> By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
> determine the cause ?
>
> Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.
>
> Gratefully,
> Courtney
> --
> s/v Mutiny
> Rhodes Bounty II
> lying Oriental, NC
> WDB5619
>

Courtney Thomas wrote:
> My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
> smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
> startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably
> has dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.
>
> From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?
>
> By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
> determine the cause ?
>
> Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.
>
> Gratefully,
> Courtney
If It's white, not blue or black, are you sure it's not just
condensation from the exhaust? If you're not losing coolant or oil or
getting oil in the coolant/coolant in the oil and the car performs OK I
wouldn't worry.

My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably
has dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.

From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?

By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
determine the cause ?

Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.

Gratefully,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Probably oil from the turbo bearings burning off directly into the exhaust.
Looks just like the white smoke from stunt aircraft!
Just wear and tear, could be like that for ages. Worry when it does not stop
!!!!
Rgds
Alec


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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:48:40 -0500, Courtney Thomas
> wrote:

>My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
>smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
>startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably
>has dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.
>
> From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?
>
>By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
>determine the cause ?
>
>Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.
>
>Gratefully,
>Courtney
White smoke is oil. Black smoke is gas. You get white smoke when the
oil leaks past the valve stem inserts onto the valve seat and burns
off during the first minutes of engine run. Then engine heat swells
the parts and prevents oil from draining past.

You get black smoke after start up but usually reappears each time you
accelerate from a stop when your rings are worn out and sometimes
continuously during driving when the rings are really worn bad.

Either way all these things are typical of an engine with the number
of miles you have on your car and no amount of oil changes will
prevent it. Its worn out and you need a top end job at least. Best
have the whole engine rebuilt while it down though or junk it and
start over.

Dear Scar,

What do you mean by 'top end' job, and what's the difference between it
and a total rebuild ?

Thank you.
Courtney


The Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:48:40 -0500, Courtney Thomas
> > wrote:
>
>
>>My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
>>smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
>>startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably
>>has dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.
>>
>>From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?
>>
>>By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
>>determine the cause ?
>>
>>Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.
>>
>>Gratefully,
>>Courtney
>>
> White smoke is oil. Black smoke is gas. You get white smoke when the
> oil leaks past the valve stem inserts onto the valve seat and burns
> off during the first minutes of engine run. Then engine heat swells
> the parts and prevents oil from draining past.
>
> You get black smoke after start up but usually reappears each time you
> accelerate from a stop when your rings are worn out and sometimes
> continuously during driving when the rings are really worn bad.
>
> Either way all these things are typical of an engine with the number
> of miles you have on your car and no amount of oil changes will
> prevent it. Its worn out and you need a top end job at least. Best
> have the whole engine rebuilt while it down though or junk it and
> start over.
>


--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

AFAIK
Bluish White Smoke = Oil burning (bad rings or pistons or valve guides or
too much oil in engine)
Black Smoke = Rich mixture (fuel not completely burning up due to many
possible factors)
White Smoke = Coolant or water burning off (Head Gasket or Cracked cylinder
head or block or excessive condensation in engine or exhaust burning off)
I wonder if moisture is building up in either the air filter or the exhaust
and that is causing your white smoke. If it is coolant the exhaust should
have a sweet smell to it. Don't breathe too much of it though! :-)

Does this Audi do a lot of short trips? I have seen a few vehicles with
excess water in the oil due to short trips. Sometimes the condensation is
sucked/pushed through the PCV system into the intake. I am not sure if it
would be in a quantity to cause excessive white smoke though.

Top End Job = Cylinder Head rebuilding only

It is best to have the engine checked at a shop designed to check
compression and leakdown at least before you decide to spend too much $$$ on
it.

JMHO
later,
dave

"Courtney Thomas" > wrote in message
...
> Dear Scar,
>
> What do you mean by 'top end' job, and what's the difference between it
> and a total rebuild ?
>
> Thank you.
> Courtney
>
>
> The Scarlet Pimpernel wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:48:40 -0500, Courtney Thomas
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My '91 Audi 200 Turbo usually emits a cloud of white [not blue or black]
>>>smoke on initial startup each day. After warmup this doesn't occur at
>>>startup. It has about 335,000 miles on it. I'm assuming this probably has
>>>dire consequences if it's cause is not determined and repaired.
>>>
>>>From worst to least damaging, what are the possible causes ?
>>>
>>>By priority of easiest to do, what should be the testing sequence to
>>>determine the cause ?
>>>
>>>Any hints on conducting tests would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>>Gratefully,
>>>Courtney
>>>
>> White smoke is oil. Black smoke is gas. You get white smoke when the
>> oil leaks past the valve stem inserts onto the valve seat and burns
>> off during the first minutes of engine run. Then engine heat swells
>> the parts and prevents oil from draining past.
>>
>> You get black smoke after start up but usually reappears each time you
>> accelerate from a stop when your rings are worn out and sometimes
>> continuously during driving when the rings are really worn bad.
>>
>> Either way all these things are typical of an engine with the number
>> of miles you have on your car and no amount of oil changes will
>> prevent it. Its worn out and you need a top end job at least. Best
>> have the whole engine rebuilt while it down though or junk it and
>> start over.