Can I get rid of tyhe EGR valve?

I had to put a tranny in my demo derby car (1983 Chevy Cavalier 2.0)
and noticed that almost every vacuum hose is dry rotted. Temporarily
I disconnected the main vacuum feed and capped it off at the manifold.
It doesn't run all that good this way though. I'd like to leave all
the vacuum hoses disconnected but I assume the EGR being disconnected
causes problems. It idles pretty good but doesn't accelerate well.
I kind of have to pump the accelerator pedal to get it going. Is
there any way to make this beast run better without the EGR?

"hhggffdd" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>I had to put a tranny in my demo derby car (1983 Chevy Cavalier 2.0)
> and noticed that almost every vacuum hose is dry rotted. Temporarily
> I disconnected the main vacuum feed and capped it off at the manifold.
> It doesn't run all that good this way though. I'd like to leave all
> the vacuum hoses disconnected but I assume the EGR being disconnected
> causes problems. It idles pretty good but doesn't accelerate well.
> I kind of have to pump the accelerator pedal to get it going. Is
> there any way to make this beast run better without the EGR?


The EGR dilutes the fuel air mixture with exhaust gasses to reduce
combustion chamber temperatures thereby reducing detonation (pinging) while
lowering NOX emissions. The engine will actually have more power with the
EGR disconnected or blocked off. It is only used when the engine is warmed
up and under a load so it can not affect idle and having it stay closed
during acceleration can only help with more power, but you may wind up with
piston damaging detonation if you don't back off on the timing or use a
higher octane fuel.
--
Disclaimer:
Due to the nature of solving problems over the internet being mostly
guesswork,
please do not consider the above recommendations as the only possible
solutions.

--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

| EGR dilutes the fuel air mixture with exhaust gasses to reduce
| combustion chamber temperatures

In your dry air, what cools combustion is the water vapour in your
exhaust gases ( which is hot, so unless cooled to nearly same
tmprtre as air intake, cannot cool combustion just because its CO2
is inert ).
EGR in humid air w-o added cooling, is a nightmare ; air intake is
already humid, so EGR w-o cooling can only heat up combustion,
i.e. produce more NOx My honda F20A ( when used on flat land,
w-o steep climbing ) 's max water tmprtre dropped by ~8ºC ( fr 75
to 67ºC ) w-o EGR, torque rose 5 & 7 % from disabling valve &
solenoid.

"TE Chea" > wrote in message ...
>| EGR dilutes the fuel air mixture with exhaust gasses to reduce
> | combustion chamber temperatures
>
> In your dry air, what cools combustion is the water vapour in your
> exhaust gases ( which is hot, so unless cooled to nearly same
> tmprtre as air intake, cannot cool combustion just because its CO2
> is inert ).
> EGR in humid air w-o added cooling, is a nightmare ; air intake is
> already humid, so EGR w-o cooling can only heat up combustion,
> i.e. produce more NOx My honda F20A ( when used on flat land,
> w-o steep climbing ) 's max water tmprtre dropped by ~8ºC ( fr 75
> to 67ºC ) w-o EGR, torque rose 5 & 7 % from disabling valve &
> solenoid.
>
>

What are you talking about?
Adding an inert gas to any fixed volume combustion process will indeed lower
the combustion temperature as long as all other variables are the same.
Water vapor has little or nothing to do with it. Exhaust gasses contain
almost no combustible gasses, and diluting the air/fuel mixture with it
simply means you will have less combustible fuel in the combustion chamber.
Less fuel to burn means less heat produced by the combustion. NOX
predominately occurs under high heat and compression, so it WILL be reduced
if the combustion temperature is reduced, as long as all other variables
remain the same. After all, deceasing NOX is the primary reason engineers
add EGR to modern vehicles. Of course, disabling the EGR on some computer
controlled engines may cause the computer to compensate by altering air/fuel
ratio or other variables, so the end result may be different.
--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

Plus failed state emissions tests and federal violations, by disabling any
emissions component.
"Kevin" > wrote in message
news:WL1zg.67253$9c6.31951@dukeread11...
>
> "TE Chea" > wrote in message
> ...
>>| EGR dilutes the fuel air mixture with exhaust gasses to reduce
>> | combustion chamber temperatures
>>
>> In your dry air, what cools combustion is the water vapour in your
>> exhaust gases ( which is hot, so unless cooled to nearly same
>> tmprtre as air intake, cannot cool combustion just because its CO2
>> is inert ).
>> EGR in humid air w-o added cooling, is a nightmare ; air intake is
>> already humid, so EGR w-o cooling can only heat up combustion,
>> i.e. produce more NOx My honda F20A ( when used on flat land,
>> w-o steep climbing ) 's max water tmprtre dropped by ~8ºC ( fr 75
>> to 67ºC ) w-o EGR, torque rose 5 & 7 % from disabling valve &
>> solenoid.
>>
>>
>
> What are you talking about?
> Adding an inert gas to any fixed volume combustion process will indeed
> lower the combustion temperature as long as all other variables are the
> same.
> Water vapor has little or nothing to do with it. Exhaust gasses contain
> almost no combustible gasses, and diluting the air/fuel mixture with it
> simply means you will have less combustible fuel in the combustion
> chamber. Less fuel to burn means less heat produced by the combustion.
> NOX predominately occurs under high heat and compression, so it WILL be
> reduced if the combustion temperature is reduced, as long as all other
> variables remain the same. After all, deceasing NOX is the primary reason
> engineers add EGR to modern vehicles. Of course, disabling the EGR on some
> computer controlled engines may cause the computer to compensate by
> altering air/fuel ratio or other variables, so the end result may be
> different.
> --
> Kevin Mouton
> Automotive Technology Instructor
> "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
> Red Green
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:17:48 -0400, "Shep" >
wrote:

>Plus failed state emissions tests and federal violations, by disabling any
>emissions component.

I doubt that will worry him too much in a demolition derby car -- at
least not if he meant that literally.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

>"Kevin" > wrote in message
>news:WL1zg.67253$9c6.31951@dukeread11...
>>
>> "TE Chea" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>| EGR dilutes the fuel air mixture with exhaust gasses to reduce
>>> | combustion chamber temperatures
>>>
>>> In your dry air, what cools combustion is the water vapour in your
>>> exhaust gases ( which is hot, so unless cooled to nearly same
>>> tmprtre as air intake, cannot cool combustion just because its CO2
>>> is inert ).
>>> EGR in humid air w-o added cooling, is a nightmare ; air intake is
>>> already humid, so EGR w-o cooling can only heat up combustion,
>>> i.e. produce more NOx My honda F20A ( when used on flat land,
>>> w-o steep climbing ) 's max water tmprtre dropped by ~8ºC ( fr 75
>>> to 67ºC ) w-o EGR, torque rose 5 & 7 % from disabling valve &
>>> solenoid.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What are you talking about?
>> Adding an inert gas to any fixed volume combustion process will indeed
>> lower the combustion temperature as long as all other variables are the
>> same.
>> Water vapor has little or nothing to do with it. Exhaust gasses contain
>> almost no combustible gasses, and diluting the air/fuel mixture with it
>> simply means you will have less combustible fuel in the combustion
>> chamber. Less fuel to burn means less heat produced by the combustion.
>> NOX predominately occurs under high heat and compression, so it WILL be
>> reduced if the combustion temperature is reduced, as long as all other
>> variables remain the same. After all, deceasing NOX is the primary reason
>> engineers add EGR to modern vehicles. Of course, disabling the EGR on some
>> computer controlled engines may cause the computer to compensate by
>> altering air/fuel ratio or other variables, so the end result may be
>> different.
>> --
>> Kevin Mouton
>> Automotive Technology Instructor
>> "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
>> Red Green
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Don wrote:

> I doubt that will worry him too much in a demolition derby car -- at
> least not if he meant that literally.
>

Yeah, I wondered if he meant that literally or whether that's just how
he thought of his old beater. I also wondered if he meant EGR literally
or maybe that's just how he talks about his PCV.

-jim

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Don wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:17:48 -0400, "Shep" >
> wrote:
>
>> Plus failed state emissions tests and federal violations, by disabling any
>> emissions component.
>
> I doubt that will worry him too much in a demolition derby car -- at
> least not if he meant that literally.
>

I meant it literally.

jim wrote:
>
> Don wrote:
>
>> I doubt that will worry him too much in a demolition derby car -- at
>> least not if he meant that literally.
>>
>
> Yeah, I wondered if he meant that literally or whether that's just how
> he thought of his old beater. I also wondered if he meant EGR literally
> or maybe that's just how he talks about his PCV.
>

It's a real demo car and I meant the EGR valve.

hhggffdd wrote:

>
> It's a real demo car and I meant the EGR valve.

The symptoms you have described don't fit with plugging off the vacuum
connection to the EGR. So maybe you have identified the EGR correctly or
maybe not but either way the EGR probably isn't the source of your
problem.

The EGR is an important part of getting a long extended life out of an
engine. In the short run it doesn't really matter much. Since all you
have is "the short run" I wouldn't worry about the EGR. Figure out
what's really wrong with the engine.

-jim

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