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Super Beetle brake shoes - are front and rear the same?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 05, 10:14 PM
Scott H
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Posts: n/a
Default Super Beetle brake shoes - are front and rear the same?

Are they making a universal brake shoe for the Super Beetle that will work for both the front and rear?
Or are the front and rear shoes always different?
Anybody have a quick answer? My parts place isn't open on Sunday and I'd like to finish this today if I can.

Mine is a '72 Super, btw.

I picked up some brake shoes on Friday to do my front brakes over this weekend. I was in the process of doing that just now and when
I compared the new shoes to the old ones I noticed that the new ones have the notch in them where the parking brake connecting link
fits on rear shoes. Also, the holes for the top return spring end up about a half inch higher/closer together than on the old shoes.
Other than that, they're identical. I can fit the new shoes in place and the upper return spring has just enough tension to hold
them in place but I'm concerned that there may not be enough tension to return the shoes properly.

I'm thinking that I've just got a set of rear shoes and need to swap them out for front shoes.

I tried looking at part numbers at a few places online and found this:

OEVeedub.com:
front - #113-698-237H
rear - #113-609-237/537C

bradsbeetlemania.com:
front - #113-698-237H
rear - # 113-609-237/537C

CIP1.com:
front - #113-609-237H
rear - #113-609-537C

..... so it looks like they probably are different.
Just thought I'd ask about the possibility of a universal front/rear shoe.
Anyone?

Thanks in advance.

--
Scott




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  #2  
Old March 14th 05, 12:11 AM
Joey Tribiani
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Default


"Scott H" > wrote in message
om...
> Are they making a universal brake shoe for the Super Beetle that will work

for both the front and rear?
> Or are the front and rear shoes always different?



Scott, most of the shoes available at a local shop are relined and even
years ago, it was becoming difficult to get fronts and rears....usually they
only carried the rears,a nd they are somewhat "universal" in that the spring
holes and wherre they meet the wheel cylinder/adjuster are the same
location....so they work just fine...i sold my 71sb in 92(i believe) and it
had rear shoes on the front....(i had to ride all around town to get the
pathetic explanation from several that they don't get the fronts returned
for cores as often as the rears, and that they concentrate on relining the
rears which are "fine")


  #3  
Old March 14th 05, 12:51 AM
Scott H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Joey Tribiani" wrote ...
>
> "Scott H" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Are they making a universal brake shoe for the Super Beetle that will work

> for both the front and rear?
> > Or are the front and rear shoes always different?

>
>
> Scott, most of the shoes available at a local shop are relined and even
> years ago, it was becoming difficult to get fronts and rears....usually they
> only carried the rears,a nd they are somewhat "universal" in that the spring
> holes and wherre they meet the wheel cylinder/adjuster are the same
> location....so they work just fine...i sold my 71sb in 92(i believe) and it
> had rear shoes on the front....(i had to ride all around town to get the
> pathetic explanation from several that they don't get the fronts returned
> for cores as often as the rears, and that they concentrate on relining the
> rears which are "fine")



Thanks for the reply, Chris.

If the holes were in the *exact* same location, I wouldn't worry about it .... but on these new ones the notch for the parking brake
link is in the location where the spring holes are on the old shoes. The holes that are there on the new shoes are just above that
and are closer together, making me worry about the return spring length and tension.

I called a few non-VW FLAPS, hoping that they might have a front set in stock that I could take a look at.
No luck, of course. Pep Boys got my hopes up when they said they had a set but when I got there it was a set for a standard Beetle.
I think I'm just going to wait and clarify this with my VW parts place tomorrow.

Thanks again,

--
Scott



  #4  
Old March 14th 05, 02:26 AM
P.J. Berg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scott H wrote:
> "Joey Tribiani" wrote ...
>
>>"Scott H" > wrote in message
.com...
>>
>>>Are they making a universal brake shoe for the Super Beetle that will work

>>
>>for both the front and rear?
>>
>>>Or are the front and rear shoes always different?

>>
>>
>>Scott, most of the shoes available at a local shop are relined and even
>>years ago, it was becoming difficult to get fronts and rears....usually they
>>only carried the rears,a nd they are somewhat "universal" in that the spring
>>holes and wherre they meet the wheel cylinder/adjuster are the same
>>location....so they work just fine...i sold my 71sb in 92(i believe) and it
>>had rear shoes on the front....(i had to ride all around town to get the
>>pathetic explanation from several that they don't get the fronts returned
>>for cores as often as the rears, and that they concentrate on relining the
>>rears which are "fine")

>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply, Chris.
>
> If the holes were in the *exact* same location, I wouldn't worry about it .... but on these new ones the notch for the parking brake
> link is in the location where the spring holes are on the old shoes. The holes that are there on the new shoes are just above that
> and are closer together, making me worry about the return spring length and tension.
>
> I called a few non-VW FLAPS, hoping that they might have a front set in stock that I could take a look at.
> No luck, of course. Pep Boys got my hopes up when they said they had a set but when I got there it was a set for a standard Beetle.
> I think I'm just going to wait and clarify this with my VW parts place tomorrow.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> --
> Scott
>
>
>


AHhh, in Scandinavia we where lucky, all 1302's and 1303's came with
front disks... even the 1300cc engine that looked like a 1600(DP heads).

J.
  #5  
Old March 14th 05, 04:12 AM
Joey Tribiani
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scott H" > wrote in message
om...
> If the holes were in the *exact* same location, I wouldn't worry about it

..... but on these new ones the notch for the parking brake
> link is in the location where the spring holes are on the old shoes. The

holes that are there on the new shoes are just above that
> and are closer together, making me worry about the return spring length

and tension.


gotcha...i honestly don't remember the holes being different spacing, but it
has been many moons ago....if they were closer i never experienced any
problems, and i drove that car till it was T-boned and totalled....(nice all
origina 71sb with autostick, bought from second owner, that bought from
family member who bought new....it as not "all original" *after* i got
it...hehe)


  #6  
Old March 14th 05, 05:49 AM
Scott H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"P.J. Berg" wrote ...
> AHhh, in Scandinavia we where lucky, all 1302's and 1303's came with
> front disks... even the 1300cc engine that looked like a 1600(DP heads).
>
> J.


Good point, P.J.
I should have noted in my first post that I'm in the USA, where we never got disc brakes on any of our Beetles.

--
Scott



  #7  
Old March 14th 05, 11:24 AM
Peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Rear brake shoes can't possibly work. Front drums on Super Beetles have a
larger inner diameter and the shoes are also wider.

"Scott H" > wrote in message
om...
> "Joey Tribiani" wrote ...
> >
> > "Scott H" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Are they making a universal brake shoe for the Super Beetle that will

work
> > for both the front and rear?
> > > Or are the front and rear shoes always different?

> >
> >
> > Scott, most of the shoes available at a local shop are relined and even
> > years ago, it was becoming difficult to get fronts and rears....usually

they
> > only carried the rears,a nd they are somewhat "universal" in that the

spring
> > holes and wherre they meet the wheel cylinder/adjuster are the same
> > location....so they work just fine...i sold my 71sb in 92(i believe) and

it
> > had rear shoes on the front....(i had to ride all around town to get the
> > pathetic explanation from several that they don't get the fronts

returned
> > for cores as often as the rears, and that they concentrate on relining

the
> > rears which are "fine")

>
>
> Thanks for the reply, Chris.
>
> If the holes were in the *exact* same location, I wouldn't worry about it

..... but on these new ones the notch for the parking brake
> link is in the location where the spring holes are on the old shoes. The

holes that are there on the new shoes are just above that
> and are closer together, making me worry about the return spring length

and tension.
>
> I called a few non-VW FLAPS, hoping that they might have a front set in

stock that I could take a look at.
> No luck, of course. Pep Boys got my hopes up when they said they had a set

but when I got there it was a set for a standard Beetle.
> I think I'm just going to wait and clarify this with my VW parts place

tomorrow.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> --
> Scott
>
>
>



  #8  
Old March 14th 05, 03:02 PM
Dennis Wik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I put new brakes on my super two years ago and I believe the front
brakes were larger and the wheel cylinders were different from the rear.
Won't the ghia discs, pads and calipers just go on without any
adjustment? I was thinking of doing that because the front drums are
the heaviest of any beetle and I think may amplify any shimmy problems
by their size and if they are a little out of round. Dennis

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=30209382&vt=vp">Den's
1977 Puma</a>

  #9  
Old March 15th 05, 03:27 AM
Joey Tribiani
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter" > wrote in message
...
> Rear brake shoes can't possibly work. Front drums on Super Beetles have a
> larger inner diameter and the shoes are also wider.
>


well i can say they most certainly will work...done it....correct, i don't
know, if you read my post you will see that i did indeed put rears on the
front, as i was told that they were the same...could have been mis-informed,
however they do work...Scott, you have them there lay the "new" ones on the
old ones and check for diameter differences...i do know the wheel cylinders
were different front to rear....


  #10  
Old March 15th 05, 04:21 AM
Peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't doubt that you fitted rear shoes to the front, but not Type 1 rear
shoes. The front drums on a Super Bug have an internal diameter if 248mm,
whereas the rears for those (and both front and rear standard Bugs) are
230mm. However, the Super Bug front uses the same wheel cylinder and shoe
linings from early Type 3 rear drums, which also had a diameter of 248mm.
So, it seems more likely that you fitted Type 3 rear brake shoes. I did not
realise this before, otherwise I would have said.

"Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
news:IKrZd.54895$755.40124@lakeread05...
>
> "Peter" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Rear brake shoes can't possibly work. Front drums on Super Beetles have

a
> > larger inner diameter and the shoes are also wider.
> >

>
> well i can say they most certainly will work...done it....correct, i don't
> know, if you read my post you will see that i did indeed put rears on the
> front, as i was told that they were the same...could have been

mis-informed,
> however they do work...Scott, you have them there lay the "new" ones on

the
> old ones and check for diameter differences...i do know the wheel

cylinders
> were different front to rear....
>
>



 




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