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Chevy Aveo and Toyota Echo Hatchback



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 4th 04, 04:01 AM
aniram
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Default Chevy Aveo and Toyota Echo Hatchback

Both looks the same, although I only see the Aveo on recent TV ad.
Again.. is this another development sharing, or just a design style
coincidence.
I recall that Toyota Corolla and GM Prizm shared the same design. Also
with the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe (or was it Hyundai matrix in
Asia?)
How close is Aveo with Suzuki swift, or Daewoo Kalos ? I heard that
Chevy Optra is actually another Daewoo car. Is Daewoo part of GM now ?
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  #2  
Old February 4th 04, 04:54 AM
Anon
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"aniram" > wrote in message
om...
> Both looks the same, although I only see the Aveo on recent TV ad.
> Again.. is this another development sharing, or just a design style
> coincidence.


No development sharing, just design conincidence. Not design coincidence as
much as filling part of the market: For compact ugly cars. In the more
general ugly catagory it is competing with Aztek, Element and Scion xB
(thankfully not in Canada). Although I noticed the headlights / taillights
in the Aveo look a lot like the Kia SUV.

> I recall that Toyota Corolla and GM Prizm shared the same design. Also
> with the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe (or was it Hyundai matrix in
> Asia?)


> How close is Aveo with Suzuki swift, or Daewoo Kalos?

100%

> I heard that
> Chevy Optra is actually another Daewoo car. Is Daewoo part of GM now ?


Daewoo went tits up, GM bought into it.


  #3  
Old February 4th 04, 07:07 AM
Joseph Oberlander
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aniram wrote:

> Both looks the same, although I only see the Aveo on recent TV ad.
> Again.. is this another development sharing, or just a design style
> coincidence.


Coincidence.

> How close is Aveo with Suzuki swift, or Daewoo Kalos ?


It *is* a Daewoo Kalos with a bit different trim.

In a word, Aveo (not equal sign) Echo.

I'd take an Echo five times over an Aveo.

  #4  
Old February 4th 04, 08:42 AM
windmere
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The Chevy Aveo and Suzuki Swift are both the Daewoo Kalos, which has been
out some time in Europe. It will also be called the Pontiac Wave. It has
very good reviews as you can see by looking up Kalos in a search engine.

The Echo hatchback also has been out for a long time in Europe as the Yaris,
and also has very good reviews. They all have a strong frame and are
engineered to be safe, but being so lightweight you want to hope you don't
get hit by anything heavier. In Europe you might not feel so vulnerable
since more cars there are tiny.

The Aveo/Swift/Kalos is several inches longer than the Yaris/Toyota Echo
hatchback. The problem with all of them is that they really are tiny - the
hatchback only holds a little bit even if the back seats are folded. And
they don't fold flat in the Aveo! But - the mileage is supposed to be
excellent. They are cute all right but however tempted I was, they are a
kid's or single person's car.

The Toyota appears to be a better quality car from my comparing them in
person, but - the Aveo/Swift are a little bigger and come with more features
and options you can't even get in the Echo hatch. One problem with the Echo
is the cupholder/square opening in the back seat so only two can sit there.
In the Aveo/Swift there is no obstruction so 3 could sit in the back if
necessary. They didn't do that in the Yaris, only for our Echo hatchback
version and I assume it was for good hearted reasons, namely that the car
only holds 650 lbs, and so if you did squeeze in 5 heavy people, there would
be the danger of being overloaded.

All of these cars have only one anti-roll bar instead of two, so it's
tilting around corners like an amusement park ride.

I noticed the cute ads for the Aveo - very nice (mom loves driving her
teenage son's first car). Echo's in contrast are creepy (monsters coming out
of the hatch, etc.). But all these cars are being marketed to kids. They did
that with the original Echo sedan too and the average person who drives
those is 45.


"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> aniram wrote:
>
> > Both looks the same, although I only see the Aveo on recent TV ad.
> > Again.. is this another development sharing, or just a design style
> > coincidence.

>
> Coincidence.
>
> > How close is Aveo with Suzuki swift, or Daewoo Kalos ?

>
> It *is* a Daewoo Kalos with a bit different trim.
>
> In a word, Aveo (not equal sign) Echo.
>
> I'd take an Echo five times over an Aveo.
>



  #5  
Old February 4th 04, 06:03 PM
Joseph Oberlander
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windmere wrote:

> The Chevy Aveo and Suzuki Swift are both the Daewoo Kalos, which has been
> out some time in Europe. It will also be called the Pontiac Wave. It has
> very good reviews as you can see by looking up Kalos in a search engine.


One thing: It's not the same car as the Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift. At least
here in the U.S. Of course, since they recycle names for other markets,
it may be called that in Europe.

> The Echo hatchback also has been out for a long time in Europe as the Yaris,
> and also has very good reviews. They all have a strong frame and are
> engineered to be safe, but being so lightweight you want to hope you don't
> get hit by anything heavier. In Europe you might not feel so vulnerable
> since more cars there are tiny.


As opposed to the Kalos? I'd say it was a loose-loose bet no matter which
one you drive.

> The Aveo/Swift/Kalos is several inches longer than the Yaris/Toyota Echo
> hatchback. The problem with all of them is that they really are tiny - the
> hatchback only holds a little bit even if the back seats are folded. And
> they don't fold flat in the Aveo! But - the mileage is supposed to be
> excellent. They are cute all right but however tempted I was, they are a
> kid's or single person's car.


I did like the Matrix/Vibe's folt-flat seats. What a concept to have a real
hinge and cantilever system on the rear seats. No flopping the seat cushions
forward - just fold and go. They need to redesign those rear seats to be
simmilar for next year.

Oh - what's that wierd slot near the door with the 4-way button?

Oh - 27/35 Mpg is dreadful mileage. My old 1987 Buick LeSabre "beater"
with a two generation old engine gets 27MPG highway. That's with an
automatic, nearly double the weight loaded with people on a trip, A/C
going, and nearly twice the power out of the 3.8L gas-sucking engine.

A Jetta with the TDI engine gets 38/46 and weights nearly a thousand
pounds more. It's just a nasty little last decade technology engine.
(though it does do 1MPG better than a KIA Rio - I'll give them that)

That's the one thing that got to me - it's so much less efficient than
the Echo. I stil don't get it that after all these years, a GM 3100
series engine puts out 170HP, the car weighs more, and yet it gets
nearly the same mileage as these little toy cars that have less weight,
displacement, and power.(20/30mpg Highway, IIRC) 26/34 for the Aveo with
automatic.

The Echo gets 35/43 MPG, has the same HP/torque(give or take a few points),
and has an 11.9 gallon tank(vs 11). Whatever Daewoo is doing - and GM is
buying into is showing how little they really care about quality.

At least the previous generation Metro got 45+ mpg.

Considering the cross-platform sharing on the Matrix/Vibe, you think it
wouldn't be impossible for them to put the Echo engine in the Daewoo at
least. The Matrix/Vibe gets 29/36 Mpg, with a 13.2 Gal tank and nearly
500lbs more weight(not including 3 gal more fuel). Oh - 130HP as well.

I think I'd pass on the Aveo just because of the dreadful engine.

> The Toyota appears to be a better quality car from my comparing them in
> person, but - the Aveo/Swift are a little bigger and come with more features
> and options you can't even get in the Echo hatch.


Like more plastic? Lol. I'd take the Toyota engine over any ticky-tacky
features anyday as neither has a premium sound system, leather, ABS standard,
or half the features you find in a typical 20K car.

It's like comparing costume jewelery. Neither one is what anyone would
consider to be a proper car. Lol.

? One problem with the Echo
> is the cupholder/square opening in the back seat so only two can sit there.


IMO, they are smart. You can't *fit* three people back there in either,
so they opted to go for a 4-person design. 5 people in either car would
likely make something sag/bend as well.

  #6  
Old February 4th 04, 06:07 PM
Stephen H. Westin
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Joseph Oberlander > writes:

<snip>

> I did like the Matrix/Vibe's folt-flat seats. What a concept to have a real
> hinge and cantilever system on the rear seats. No flopping the seat cushions
> forward - just fold and go.


Kinda like the '95 U.S. Escort?

<snip>

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
  #7  
Old February 4th 04, 06:47 PM
Joseph Oberlander
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Stephen H. Westin wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander > writes:
>
> <snip>
>
>>I did like the Matrix/Vibe's folt-flat seats. What a concept to have a real
>>hinge and cantilever system on the rear seats. No flopping the seat cushions
>>forward - just fold and go.

>
>
> Kinda like the '95 U.S. Escort?


No. Folding flat is one thing. Folding flat while the seat cushion
also moves at the same time to allow for a perfectly flat cargo area
is another. The Matrix/Vibe system feels like you are closing a
piano top - no friction or touching of the parts - just a simple
drop down and presto-it's flat. Perfectly, sheet of drywall flat.

Two gripes about the Vibe/Matrix, though:

1:Storage underneath the rear floor is about 2-3 inches too short
to store the cargo cover. When I first saw under there, I thought:
"ah - a place to store the cover". Not so.

2: The rear side storage panels need to have proper hinges on
them and not drag on the floor panel. Also, they need to be
increased in size a little bit and a hole drilled in the bottom
to allow for storage of the headrests when the seat is down.

Having that nice fold-flat cargo area is moot if you have a cover
and two "footballs" that you can't put anywhere and are flopping
around.

  #8  
Old February 4th 04, 07:20 PM
Stephen H. Westin
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Default

Joseph Oberlander > writes:

> Stephen H. Westin wrote:
>
> > Joseph Oberlander > writes:
> > <snip>
> >
> >>I did like the Matrix/Vibe's folt-flat seats. What a concept to have a real
> >>hinge and cantilever system on the rear seats. No flopping the seat cushions
> >>forward - just fold and go.

> > Kinda like the '95 U.S. Escort?

>
> No. Folding flat is one thing. Folding flat while the seat cushion
> also moves at the same time to allow for a perfectly flat cargo area
> is another.


Sorry, I got the wrong decade. The '85 or so Escort had a linkage so
that you would just grab (and unlatch) the seatback, and the cushion
would flip up as the back came down. An improvement on the seats that
require you to swing up the cushion separately.

> The Matrix/Vibe system feels like you are closing a
> piano top - no friction or touching of the parts - just a simple
> drop down and presto-it's flat. Perfectly, sheet of drywall flat.


I imagine that the height of the vehicle helps here. Does the seat
back stack on top of the cushion? That wasn't feasible on the Escort,
as the load floor was too close to the floorpan.

<snip>

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
  #9  
Old February 4th 04, 08:31 PM
Bill 2
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Default


"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
> windmere wrote:
>
> > The Chevy Aveo and Suzuki Swift are both the Daewoo Kalos, which has

been
> > out some time in Europe. It will also be called the Pontiac Wave. It has
> > very good reviews as you can see by looking up Kalos in a search engine.

>
> One thing: It's not the same car as the Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift. At least
> here in the U.S. Of course, since they recycle names for other markets,
> it may be called that in Europe.


The new Suzuki swift is the same car. The old Metro design is retired.

> > The Echo hatchback also has been out for a long time in Europe as the

Yaris,
> > and also has very good reviews. They all have a strong frame and are
> > engineered to be safe, but being so lightweight you want to hope you

don't
> > get hit by anything heavier. In Europe you might not feel so vulnerable
> > since more cars there are tiny.

>
> As opposed to the Kalos? I'd say it was a loose-loose bet no matter which
> one you drive.


Plus you can't fit anything in them.

> > The Aveo/Swift/Kalos is several inches longer than the Yaris/Toyota Echo
> > hatchback. The problem with all of them is that they really are tiny -

the
> > hatchback only holds a little bit even if the back seats are folded. And
> > they don't fold flat in the Aveo! But - the mileage is supposed to be
> > excellent. They are cute all right but however tempted I was, they are a
> > kid's or single person's car.

>
> I did like the Matrix/Vibe's folt-flat seats. What a concept to have a

real
> hinge and cantilever system on the rear seats. No flopping the seat

cushions
> forward - just fold and go. They need to redesign those rear seats to be
> simmilar for next year.
>
> Oh - what's that wierd slot near the door with the 4-way button?
>
> Oh - 27/35 Mpg is dreadful mileage. My old 1987 Buick LeSabre "beater"
> with a two generation old engine gets 27MPG highway. That's with an
> automatic, nearly double the weight loaded with people on a trip, A/C
> going, and nearly twice the power out of the 3.8L gas-sucking engine.


Koreans have the worst mileage. I think the Aveo mileage is poor compaired
to the Chev Cavalier, which is a larger car. (26/37 US-MPG)

> A Jetta with the TDI engine gets 38/46 and weights nearly a thousand
> pounds more. It's just a nasty little last decade technology engine.
> (though it does do 1MPG better than a KIA Rio - I'll give them that)


*cough cough* Damn Particulate. The TDI isn't amazing even for a diesel. The
VW Gas engine isn't that good either.

>
> That's the one thing that got to me - it's so much less efficient than
> the Echo. I stil don't get it that after all these years, a GM 3100
> series engine puts out 170HP, the car weighs more, and yet it gets
> nearly the same mileage as these little toy cars that have less weight,
> displacement, and power.(20/30mpg Highway, IIRC) 26/34 for the Aveo with
> automatic.
>
> The Echo gets 35/43 MPG, has the same HP/torque(give or take a few

points),
> and has an 11.9 gallon tank(vs 11). Whatever Daewoo is doing - and GM is
> buying into is showing how little they really care about quality.
>
> At least the previous generation Metro got 45+ mpg.
>
> Considering the cross-platform sharing on the Matrix/Vibe, you think it
> wouldn't be impossible for them to put the Echo engine in the Daewoo at
> least. The Matrix/Vibe gets 29/36 Mpg, with a 13.2 Gal tank and nearly
> 500lbs more weight(not including 3 gal more fuel). Oh - 130HP as well.
>
> I think I'd pass on the Aveo just because of the dreadful engine.


A Chev engine would be better than the Daewoo.



  #10  
Old February 5th 04, 03:14 AM
Mark Pippin
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Default

Put the "footballs" on the rear floor before you fold the seat down if
you must. Why remove them at all? There's no need to, the seat folds
just fine with them in place.

Mark Pippin


Joseph Oberlander > wrote in message hlink.net>...
>
> Having that nice fold-flat cargo area is moot if you have a cover
> and two "footballs" that you can't put anywhere and are flopping
> around.

 




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