2005 Saturn Preview

Interestingly, in an EPA study done in the early 90's, they determined that
1 hour of lawnmower use produced the same amount of emissions (primarily
volatile organic compounds) as an "average in-use passenger car that was
driven for 50 miles. This figure is most likely much worse today given the
continuing improvements that were made since that time to automotive
emissions controls and the fact that many of the older vehicles that were on
the road at that time are no longer in use. Per the EPA, non-road source
emissions (lawnmowers, boats, other) constitute approximately 14.5-17.3% of
total VOC emissions and approximately 20% of benzene emissions with road
sources - cars/trucks/etc constituting 45% and stationary sources the
remaining 35%.

You can read more about the health affects (primarily carcinogenic) of these
emissions at:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad...m/ph2rsd-6.pdf The EPA
site also provides many additional studies and facts which are very
enlightening. My reason for responding is solely to help to explain why our
"piddly" 3.9HP (the average used nationally) is of interest to the EPA and
requires emission controls.

Bob

"richard hornsby" > wrote in message
news:c9me8u$ft5MPG than > Antecdotally, I had to call Briggs/Stratton about
a problem with my lawn
> mower engine and the rep explained how the EPA had put strict emissions
> requirments on their engine designs forcing them to give (take) control
> of the throttle position on the model I'd purchased over to a
> centrifical clutch - that they had set my engine to run at the proper
> (low) RPMs as to produce X amount of emissions. From a friggin push
> mower. What I felt like was that they (EPA) are more interested in
> attacking the little things which they can get to (my piddly lawnmower
> or an already relatively (H2 anyone?) fuel efficent saturn), than
> figuring out why the dumptruck in front of me on the road is spewing out
> thick black smoke which I can't see through.

I keep thinking I'll get a B&D battery mower however the old gas model from
Builder's Emporium (pre Home Depot) just doesn't die. The city (San Diego)
had an offer if you brought your old mower in they'd sell you the battery
model for less that half of what you would normally pay. The line to get
one went around the block and I aborted that idea... (not my idea of a nice
way to spend a Saturday)

"Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> richard hornsby > wrote:
>
> > Or automatics are
> > controlled by computer, so they're more easily manipulated to produce
> > output and have gear ratios designed specfically to reduce emissions,
> > torque and hp be damned?
>
> *ding*
>
> Oh yes, and now the TC locks up in the lower gears, same reason.
>
> > Antecdotally, I had to call Briggs/Stratton about a problem with my lawn
> > mower engine and the rep explained how the EPA had put strict emissions
> > requirments on their engine designs forcing them to give (take) control
> > of the throttle position on the model I'd purchased over to a
> > centrifical clutch - that they had set my engine to run at the proper
> > (low) RPMs as to produce X amount of emissions.
>
> Sounds about right.
>
> > From a friggin push mower.
>
> I'm waiting for a decent EFI that's cost effective for these things.
> It'd be a lot better in many ways. Oh yeah, I hear Cali is gona require
> cats on mowers. Surprisingly, lawn mower engines are actually quite
> dirty, far far more than cars. But, they should be able to be cleaned
> up a bit easier... *shrug* IMHO, it's the acient B&S design that's
> flathead and will run on anything flamable, than any inherent issue.
> Not so for Lawn Boy and that goddammed 2 stroke POS they use. But It's
> a POS anyway.
>
> > What I felt like was that they (EPA) are more interested in
> > attacking the little things which they can get to (my piddly lawnmower
> > or an already relatively (H2 anyone?) fuel efficent saturn), than
> > figuring out why the dumptruck in front of me on the road is spewing out
> > thick black smoke which I can't see through.
>
> Because enforcement of vehicle emissions issues after the sale is the
> state's problem. It's pre sale that it's the EPA's problem. Though I
> agree it's stupid anyway. AFAIK, there's also nothing that the EPA can
> do to force a state to enforce the emissions regulations, besides
> threatening to do bad things to highway funding, etc. But not much
> otherwise.
>
> Of course, the local cops arent paid to enforce some regulation written
> by a paper pusher in DC. Though in NY, they can smog larger trucks by
> the side of the road. I've not seen it done, though.
>
> The EPA also does what the enviros tell them to, so naturally cars are
> the big target, no matter what.

Jonnie Santos wrote:
> I keep thinking I'll get a B&D battery mower however the old gas model from
> Builder's Emporium (pre Home Depot) just doesn't die. The city (San Diego)
> had an offer if you brought your old mower in they'd sell you the battery
> model for less that half of what you would normally pay. The line to get
> one went around the block and I aborted that idea... (not my idea of a nice
> way to spend a Saturday)

The electricity to recharge such a device (and all-electric cars (ie not
hybrids)) has to be generated somewhere. If the power plant burns
anything (coal, gas, etc) to generate and deliver that power aren't you
creating greater net pollution?

The question isn't baited, I really don't know the answer.

richard hornsby > wrote in message >...
> Jonnie Santos wrote:
> > I keep thinking I'll get a B&D battery mower however the old gas model from
> > Builder's Emporium (pre Home Depot) just doesn't die. The city (San Diego)
> > had an offer if you brought your old mower in they'd sell you the battery
> > model for less that half of what you would normally pay. The line to get
> > one went around the block and I aborted that idea... (not my idea of a nice
> > way to spend a Saturday)
>
> The electricity to recharge such a device (and all-electric cars (ie not
> hybrids)) has to be generated somewhere. If the power plant burns
> anything (coal, gas, etc) to generate and deliver that power aren't you
> creating greater net pollution?
>
> The question isn't baited, I really don't know the answer.

In terms of CO2 (is that pollution today?) you may be right, especially
after taking into account multiple conversion losses.

But in terms of all the other emissions, a small lawnmower engine will
make 100x more emissions than even an unscrubbed coal power
plant (which there aren't any of anymore) for the same power. For
everything but CO2, local measurements usually matter more to the
regulators than any global picture, so just moving the emissions to
a different state is a solution.

Tim.

Great point - the pro electric position I've heard is that the emissions are
generally less per unit of energy because there are tighter controls that
regulate emissions output on an industrial source of energy. But is that
nuclear, coal, gas turbine or photovoltaic? The con electric position is
similar to your point added to the waste of energy to produce the batteries
and then ultimately recycle and or dispose of them...

....things that make you go hmmmm??


"richard hornsby" > wrote in message
...
> Jonnie Santos wrote:
> > I keep thinking I'll get a B&D battery mower however the old gas model
from
> > Builder's Emporium (pre Home Depot) just doesn't die. The city (San
Diego)
> > had an offer if you brought your old mower in they'd sell you the
battery
> > model for less that half of what you would normally pay. The line to
get
> > one went around the block and I aborted that idea... (not my idea of a
nice
> > way to spend a Saturday)
>
> The electricity to recharge such a device (and all-electric cars (ie not
> hybrids)) has to be generated somewhere. If the power plant burns
> anything (coal, gas, etc) to generate and deliver that power aren't you
> creating greater net pollution?
>
> The question isn't baited, I really don't know the answer.