2000 T&C brake line broke.

To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the car
to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the brake
pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could get
the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake hose
between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake unit
attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.

The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes, or
perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace all
brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
since they don't have the proper tool.

Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their automotive
engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?

My head is still spinning..

"NoName" > wrote in message
...
> To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the
car
> to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the
brake
> pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could
get
> the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake
hose
> between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake
unit
> attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.
>
> The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
> never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
> evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes,
or
> perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
> the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace
all
> brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
> since they don't have the proper tool.
>
> Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their
automotive
> engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
> vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?
>
> My head is still spinning..
>
>
>

I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due to
undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I
had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke
when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope
the other hose was inspected also
Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out
of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on
to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
years
Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...

"NoName" > wrote in message
...

----- Original Message -----
From: "maxpower" >
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: 2000 T&C brake line broke.


"NoName" > wrote in message
...
To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the car
to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the brake
pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could get
the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake hose
between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake unit
attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.

The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes, or
perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace all
brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
since they don't have the proper tool.

Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their automotive
engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?

My head is still spinning..

______________________________________

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
==================================

I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due
to
undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I
had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke
when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope
the other hose was inspected also
Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out
of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on
to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
years
Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

______________________________________
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
==================================

Thanks for the info.
I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other one
is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do that.
I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going to be
a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about. Maybe I will be surprised.
Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that many
consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road salt,
dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the undercoating
and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.

Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got on
the driver caliper -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There are
only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.

The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in brakes,
and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools to
thwart private garage type work.

"NoName" > wrote in message
...
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "NoName" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "maxpower" >
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.Chrysler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
> Subject: 2000 T&C brake line broke.
>
>
> "NoName" > wrote in message
> ...
> To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the
car
> to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the
brake
> pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could
get
> the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake
hose
> between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake
unit
> attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.
>
> The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
> never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
> evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes,
or
> perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
> the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace
all
> brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
> since they don't have the proper tool.
>
> Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their
automotive
> engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
> vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?
>
> My head is still spinning..
>
> ______________________________________
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ==================================
>
> I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due
> to
> undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
> the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
> flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience
I
> had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it
broke
> when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I
hope
> the other hose was inspected also
> Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
> scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get
out
> of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work
on
> to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
> years
> Its not a gimmick, its a procedure
>
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech
>
> ______________________________________
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ==================================
>
> Thanks for the info.
> I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other
one
> is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do
that.
> I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going to
be
> a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about.

The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few buttons to
actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.

Maybe I will be surprised.
> Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that many
> consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road salt,
> dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the
undercoating
> and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.

I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection already on
the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A total
rip off as far as I'm concerned,
That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it traps
moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate
>
> Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got on
> the driver caliper

How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is under
the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt anything,
Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out with a
drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of the
linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings

-- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
> four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
> brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There
are
> only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.
>
> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
brakes,
> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
> Chrysler/dodge/Plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools
to
> thwart private garage type work.

I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other Manufactures
use this type system.
It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others out
there using this application
>
>

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NoName" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "maxpower" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> "NoName" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "maxpower" >
>> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.Chrysler
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
>> Subject: 2000 T&C brake line broke.
>>
>>
>> "NoName" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the
> car
>> to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the
> brake
>> pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could
> get
>> the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake
> hose
>> between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake
> unit
>> attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.
>>
>> The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
>> never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
>> evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes,
> or
>> perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
>> the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace
> all
>> brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't
>> accomplish
>> since they don't have the proper tool.
>>
>> Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their
> automotive
>> engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
>> vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work
>> done?
>>
>> My head is still spinning..
>>
>> ______________________________________
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> ==================================
>>
>> I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was
>> due
>> to
>> undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
>> the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
>> flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first
>> experience
> I
>> had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it
> broke
>> when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I
> hope
>> the other hose was inspected also
>> Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
>> scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get
> out
>> of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work
> on
>> to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
>> years
>> Its not a gimmick, its a procedure
>>
>> Glenn Beasley
>> Chrysler Tech
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> ==================================
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>> I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other
> one
>> is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do
> that.
>> I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going to
> be
>> a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about.
>
> The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few buttons
> to
> actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.
>
> Maybe I will be surprised.
>> Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that many
>> consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road salt,
>> dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the
> undercoating
>> and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.
>
> I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection already
> on
> the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A
> total
> rip off as far as I'm concerned,
> That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it traps
> moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate
>>
>> Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got on
>> the driver caliper
>
> How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is under
> the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt anything,
> Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out with a
> drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of the
> linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings
>
> -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
>> four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
>> brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There
> are
>> only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.
>>
>> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
> brakes,
>> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
>> Chrysler/dodge/Plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools
> to
>> thwart private garage type work.
>
> I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other
> Manufactures
> use this type system.
> It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others out
> there using this application
>>
>>

I was just asking the question about the brake pad. I don't see any REASON
for the brake pad to have gotten any fluid on it at all. BUT I can see that
shop might tell me that it did, and that I would need to get new brake pads.

Buts it worse than that. I got a phone call today that the master brake
cylinder was leaking, and NO mention of the flexible tube having a hole it
it. the trusted shop I took it too originally (and I called him back after
listening to the voice mail to make sure) said the line/hose was broken, and
that he didn't see any reason for the master brake cylinder to be replaced.

So the plot thickens.
Wow, I am just torn over the diagnostic fee I am going to PAY that didn't
include the leaking HOSE, I am not so certain the brake cylinder is bad.
Guess its time for a third opinion at a different Dodge/Chrysler 5 Star
shop... my original shop says he sees no way the brake cylinder is
involved... So there is a learning process for me.

"NoName" > wrote in message
...
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "NoName" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> "NoName" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "maxpower" >
> >> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.Chrysler
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
> >> Subject: 2000 T&C brake line broke.
> >>
> >>
> >> "NoName" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the
> > car
> >> to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the
> > brake
> >> pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could
> > get
> >> the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake
> > hose
> >> between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake
> > unit
> >> attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.
> >>
> >> The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
> >> never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
> >> evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the
codes,
> > or
> >> perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of
flushing
> >> the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace
> > all
> >> brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't
> >> accomplish
> >> since they don't have the proper tool.
> >>
> >> Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their
> > automotive
> >> engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
> >> vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work
> >> done?
> >>
> >> My head is still spinning..
> >>
> >> ______________________________________
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> ==================================
> >>
> >> I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was
> >> due
> >> to
> >> undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it
left
> >> the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
> >> flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first
> >> experience
> > I
> >> had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it
> > broke
> >> when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I
> > hope
> >> the other hose was inspected also
> >> Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a
special
> >> scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never
get
> > out
> >> of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not
work
> > on
> >> to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
> >> years
> >> Its not a gimmick, its a procedure
> >>
> >> Glenn Beasley
> >> Chrysler Tech
> >>
> >> ______________________________________
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> ==================================
> >>
> >> Thanks for the info.
> >> I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other
> > one
> >> is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do
> > that.
> >> I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going
to
> > be
> >> a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about.
> >
> > The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few
buttons
> > to
> > actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.
> >
> > Maybe I will be surprised.
> >> Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that
many
> >> consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road
salt,
> >> dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the
> > undercoating
> >> and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.
> >
> > I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection already
> > on
> > the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A
> > total
> > rip off as far as I'm concerned,
> > That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it traps
> > moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate
> >>
> >> Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got
on
> >> the driver caliper
> >
> > How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is
under
> > the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt
anything,
> > Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out with
a
> > drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of
the
> > linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings
> >
> > -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
> >> four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
> >> brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There
> > are
> >> only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.
> >>
> >> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
> > brakes,
> >> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work.
Evidently
> >> Chrysler/dodge/Plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special
tools
> > to
> >> thwart private garage type work.
> >
> > I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other
> > Manufactures
> > use this type system.
> > It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others
out
> > there using this application
> >>
> >>
>
> I was just asking the question about the brake pad. I don't see any REASON
> for the brake pad to have gotten any fluid on it at all. BUT I can see
that
> shop might tell me that it did, and that I would need to get new brake
pads.
>
> Buts it worse than that. I got a phone call today that the master brake
> cylinder was leaking, and NO mention of the flexible tube having a hole it
> it. the trusted shop I took it too originally (and I called him back
after
> listening to the voice mail to make sure) said the line/hose was broken,
and
> that he didn't see any reason for the master brake cylinder to be
replaced.
>
> So the plot thickens.
> Wow, I am just torn over the diagnostic fee I am going to PAY that didn't
> include the leaking HOSE, I am not so certain the brake cylinder is bad.
> Guess its time for a third opinion at a different Dodge/Chrysler 5 Star
> shop... my original shop says he sees no way the brake cylinder is
> involved... So there is a learning process for me.
>
>
>
So the brake line that they say was leaking isnt and now its the master cyl?
Take your vehicle somewhere else, It sounds like the circus has just
started selling tickets.

NoName wrote:

> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in brakes,
> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
> Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools to
> thwart private garage type work.

This isn't true. The OTC Genisys scanner will bleed ABS brakes in the
year vehicle you have. I am sure other scanners will also. Granted, the
OTC tool isn't your $99 toy that you buy at Autozone, but it is not
out of the question for a professional auto repair shop to purchase.
And it is not manufactured by Chrysler or sold by them. For a time
MAC Tools was OEMing the OTC scanners, I don't know if they still do, but
you can call OTC and they will sell you one or send you to someone who
will.

Ted

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NoName" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "maxpower" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "NoName" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "maxpower" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> "NoName" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "maxpower" >
>> >> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.Chrysler
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
>> >> Subject: 2000 T&C brake line broke.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "NoName" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took
>> >> the
>> > car
>> >> to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the
>> > brake
>> >> pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they
>> >> could
>> > get
>> >> the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake
>> > hose
>> >> between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake
>> > unit
>> >> attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake
>> >> system.
>> >>
>> >> The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they
>> >> had
>> >> never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
>> >> evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the
> codes,
>> > or
>> >> perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of
> flushing
>> >> the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and
>> >> replace
>> > all
>> >> brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't
>> >> accomplish
>> >> since they don't have the proper tool.
>> >>
>> >> Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their
>> > automotive
>> >> engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair
>> >> a
>> >> vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work
>> >> done?
>> >>
>> >> My head is still spinning..
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________
>> >>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >> ==================================
>> >>
>> >> I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was
>> >> due
>> >> to
>> >> undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it
> left
>> >> the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
>> >> flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first
>> >> experience
>> > I
>> >> had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it
>> > broke
>> >> when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I
>> > hope
>> >> the other hose was inspected also
>> >> Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a
> special
>> >> scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never
> get
>> > out
>> >> of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not
> work
>> > on
>> >> to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least
>> >> 3
>> >> years
>> >> Its not a gimmick, its a procedure
>> >>
>> >> Glenn Beasley
>> >> Chrysler Tech
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >> ==================================
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the info.
>> >> I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the
>> >> other
>> > one
>> >> is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do
>> > that.
>> >> I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going
> to
>> > be
>> >> a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about.
>> >
>> > The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few
> buttons
>> > to
>> > actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.
>> >
>> > Maybe I will be surprised.
>> >> Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that
> many
>> >> consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road
> salt,
>> >> dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the
>> > undercoating
>> >> and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.
>> >
>> > I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection
>> > already
>> > on
>> > the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A
>> > total
>> > rip off as far as I'm concerned,
>> > That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it
>> > traps
>> > moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate
>> >>
>> >> Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got
> on
>> >> the driver caliper
>> >
>> > How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is
> under
>> > the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt
> anything,
>> > Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out
>> > with
> a
>> > drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of
> the
>> > linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings
>> >
>> > -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
>> >> four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
>> >> brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring.
>> >> There
>> > are
>> >> only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.
>> >>
>> >> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
>> > brakes,
>> >> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work.
> Evidently
>> >> Chrysler/dodge/Plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special
> tools
>> > to
>> >> thwart private garage type work.
>> >
>> > I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other
>> > Manufactures
>> > use this type system.
>> > It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others
> out
>> > there using this application
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> I was just asking the question about the brake pad. I don't see any
>> REASON
>> for the brake pad to have gotten any fluid on it at all. BUT I can see
> that
>> shop might tell me that it did, and that I would need to get new brake
> pads.
>>
>> Buts it worse than that. I got a phone call today that the master brake
>> cylinder was leaking, and NO mention of the flexible tube having a hole
>> it
>> it. the trusted shop I took it too originally (and I called him back
> after
>> listening to the voice mail to make sure) said the line/hose was broken,
> and
>> that he didn't see any reason for the master brake cylinder to be
> replaced.
>>
>> So the plot thickens.
>> Wow, I am just torn over the diagnostic fee I am going to PAY that didn't
>> include the leaking HOSE, I am not so certain the brake cylinder is bad.
>> Guess its time for a third opinion at a different Dodge/Chrysler 5 Star
>> shop... my original shop says he sees no way the brake cylinder is
>> involved... So there is a learning process for me.
>>
>>
>>
> So the brake line that they say was leaking isnt and now its the master
> cyl?
> Take your vehicle somewhere else, It sounds like the circus has just
> started selling tickets.
>

Hey, its more comical than THAT.
The car has 76K miles on it,
The 'report' that I received says i need to have "a fuel injection service,
30K major maintenance service, trans fl uid flush (fluid is black) --
Customer has decline d all repairs at this time."

The major maintenance's have been performed, the money vacuuming of my
wallet isn't needed, and the tranny fluid is red, and was changed at 35k and
65K. I think the shop looked at some other car NOT mine. But its not there
anymore. I paid my $29.32 and got it to a different Chrysler shop.

Their is a recall on the heated leather seats, and boy, am i glad I didn't
allow them to get started on THAT.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
.net...
> NoName wrote:
>
>> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
>> brakes,
>> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
>> Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools
>> to
>> thwart private garage type work.
>
> This isn't true. The OTC Genisys scanner will bleed ABS brakes in the
> year vehicle you have. I am sure other scanners will also. Granted, the
> OTC tool isn't your $99 toy that you buy at Autozone, but it is not
> out of the question for a professional auto repair shop to purchase.
> And it is not manufactured by Chrysler or sold by them. For a time
> MAC Tools was OEMing the OTC scanners, I don't know if they still do, but
> you can call OTC and they will sell you one or send you to someone who
> will.
>
> Ted


Thanks,
I just sometimes get the feeling that customers are looked at more as a
'mark' than as a resource to be taken care of.
well ahem, taken? .... LOL

"NoName" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> .net...
> > NoName wrote:
> >
> >> The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in
> >> brakes,
> >> and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work.
Evidently
> >> Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special
tools
> >> to
> >> thwart private garage type work.
> >
> > This isn't true. The OTC Genisys scanner will bleed ABS brakes in the
> > year vehicle you have. I am sure other scanners will also. Granted,
the
> > OTC tool isn't your $99 toy that you buy at Autozone, but it is not
> > out of the question for a professional auto repair shop to purchase.
> > And it is not manufactured by Chrysler or sold by them. For a time
> > MAC Tools was OEMing the OTC scanners, I don't know if they still do,
but
> > you can call OTC and they will sell you one or send you to someone who
> > will.
> >
> > Ted
>
>
> Thanks,
> I just sometimes get the feeling that customers are looked at more as a
> 'mark' than as a resource to be taken care of.
> well ahem, taken? .... LOL
>
>

I feel the same way every time I pay my electric bill or go to the doctors
or fill my truck up with gas