Coolant in the oil

My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a blown
head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was
blown, I continued to drive the car. At first, the only symptoms I had
was bubbles/foaming in the radiator and overflow bottle. The car was
also running hot at times. A few months later, the oil started to look
a bit funny. For some reason the level had somehow got higher on the
dipstick. The engine also skipped when I first started it up.

Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months), I
took it to the lube express at Wal-Mart to get the oil changed. While
I'm in the store, the lube man pages me over the PA system and told me
to come over there. Being the bearer of bad news, the person led me out
to the lube bay and put the dipstick into the oil. The oil resembled
the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also white splotches
inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they wouldn't change
the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond gone and said
that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be done ASAP
possible is beyond me).

Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some
head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run
fine as far as I know.

What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I
think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed.

well, you had non-oil over components that were supposed to get OIL only. A
slew of mechanical failures were imminent and undoubtedly there's additional
wear on mechanical parts like rings, rod bearings, internal mechnisms etc..
I think it was a problem longer than you realize before they found it, but
what's done is done. It may start burning oil sooner than later but I see
its late in the engines life anyway. You should have the oil drained and
checked periodically by letting it sit and separate (since coolant and oil
dont mix) to be sure it's all gone out of the crankcase. I am sure these
guys here will give you some horror stories and suggestions.

On 18 Jan 2005 10:16:30 -0800, wrote:

>What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I
>think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed.

If you beat water and oil together you get a mayonaise-like foam that
shows up on the underside of the oil filler cap and other places. I
acquired a car cheap once that had such problems and changed the head
gasket. Drove it many miles afterward no problem. If your car is not
blowing blue smoke out the tailpipe or making knocking noises, it's
probably all right.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 wrote:

> My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a blown
> head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was
> blown, I continued to drive the car.

Not wise.

> A few months later, the oil started to look a bit funny.

A few *months* you drove it like this? Were you *trying* to kill your car?

> Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months)

This kind of abuse and neglect is a large part of how certain kinds of
cars get a reputation for being "unreliable".

> The oil resembled the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also
> white splotches inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they
> wouldn't change the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond
> gone and said that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be
> done ASAP possible is beyond me).

Because when the head gasket fails, lots of bad things happen. Coolant in
the oil. Oil in the coolant. Coolant in the combustion chamber (bye bye,
O2 sensor and catalyst!) Combustion heat where it's not supposed to be.
This is not an optional, "When I get around to it" fix.

> Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some
> head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run
> fine as far as I know.

....which appears not to be very far beyond the tip of your nose...

> What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I
> think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed.

You drove it like that for *months* before you got it fixed. Coolant is a
rotten engine lubricant when cold, even worse when baked and whipped with
hot oil. Your main bearings, cam bearings, big and small end rod bearings
will have suffered.

But that's OK, 'cause you obviously don't care.

Honestly, some people should just walk, take the subway or ride the bus.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a blown
> head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was
> blown, I continued to drive the car. At first, the only symptoms I had
> was bubbles/foaming in the radiator and overflow bottle. The car was
> also running hot at times. A few months later, the oil started to look
> a bit funny. For some reason the level had somehow got higher on the
> dipstick. The engine also skipped when I first started it up.
>
> Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months), I
> took it to the lube express at Wal-Mart to get the oil changed. While
> I'm in the store, the lube man pages me over the PA system and told me
> to come over there. Being the bearer of bad news, the person led me out
> to the lube bay and put the dipstick into the oil. The oil resembled
> the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also white splotches
> inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they wouldn't change
> the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond gone and said
> that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be done ASAP
> possible is beyond me).

That's mainly because you are so mind wrenchingly stupid you can't
understand why a gasket leaking copious quantities of water into the engine
oil is a BAD thing for engine life.


>
> Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some
> head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run
> fine as far as I know.
>
> What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I
> think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed.

I find it hard to believe you really think you only drove it for 20-30 miles
like that. Well, actually if I look back to my comment one paragraph up yes
I can believe you think that. You apparently really do think that all the
water that got into the oil happened instantaneously the very second before
you decided to check the oil level even though you know the gasket had gone
six months earlier.

Or is too stupid to be believable and it's a troll and we've all been had?
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

I have a (hopefully) interesting experience with water in the oil over an
extended period. Many years ago a friend was tuning his Ford Escort with 1.6
CVH engine. He found some pistons from an Alfa engine that would fit and
give the right CR but they were 84mm and the std bore is 80mm. 4mm is a hell
of stretch for an overbore on a small 4 pot but the engines are cheap as
chips over here and no great loss if it didn't work out. I did him a big
valve head and cam and he already had a pair of 45 DCOe Webers knocking
about looking for a good home. With an offset ground crank he squeezed the
capacity up to about 1.8 litres.

It certainly went like **** off a shovel. Never got onto a dyno because he's
a dab hand at setting up DCOE's by feel but 130 to 140 bhp was a safe bet.
Eventually it started using water though and the dreaded mayo appeared in
large quantities. To keep mobile he took the rad cap off and drove it
unpressurised (and fairly gently) which reduced the coolant loss to
manageable proportions. He kept it going like this for a hell of a long time
with the occasional sump drain to get rid of the water and putting something
a bit more viscous in.. Over a year I think
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk), maybe even two, and a
50 mile round trip into work every day. When the car got pensioned off (it
was only an old POS) he took the engine apart for curiosity's sake and I
went round to have a look. One bore had sprouted a tiny hole where a glitch
in the sand casting has been uncovered at rebore time. Or at least it must
have come to within a couple of thou and broken through in service because
it was fine to start with.

The most interesting bit is what happened at assembly time. He's an
experienced CNC engineer and generally all round handy at fixing cars but
doesn't built engines day in day out like I do so he didn't quite hit the
optimum build procedure. Instead of fitting the pistons and rods to the
bores and then fitting the big end shells he did it the other way round and
two shells got knocked out of position as he tapped the pistons in, got
squished when he put the rod caps on and the crank locked up. He spotted it
immediately and asked me to get another set of shells. The first set were OE
spec Glacier ones but I couldn't get those again at short notice and we
ended up with a cheap set of King shells made in Israel. So it finally went
together with Glacier on two rods and King on the other two.

When it came apart after maybe 20k miles on primarily water the two pairs of
Glacier big end shells were toast and down to the steel backing and the two
pairs of King shells looked almost brand new. Glacier use the normal
lead/tin white metal and King use aluminium. From then on I started putting
King in race engines and they've been good as gold. Everything else in the
engine would have carried on running at a pinch. The piston skirts were a
bit scuffed but the main bearings had just about survived and the cam was
ok. The valves and valve seats were trashed but that was because there was
no room for an air filter with the DCOEs and the seats had been grit blasted
for 20k.

It isn't the recommended way to run a car but no big money had gone into it
and he knew exactly what he was doing in keeping it running on water. Made
for an interesting tale for the grandkids anyway.

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote

> Honestly, some people should just walk, take the subway or ride the bus.

More sensibly, a lot of them buy new cars and take them to the dealer for
service. They don't have a clue what's going on when they do that, but as
long as they do that it doesn't matter.

There are also times when it makes sense for a person to just drive a car
until it breaks then push it off a cliff. Having nursed along a number of
elderly K-cars and Omnirisons, I know. There comes a time when you're just
throwing good money after bad.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Dave Gower wrote:

> > Honestly, some people should just walk, take the subway or ride the bus.

> More sensibly, a lot of them buy new cars and take them to the dealer
> for service. They don't have a clue what's going on when they do that,
> but as long as they do that it doesn't matter.

Please change the Subject line when you change the topic. In this case,
you've gone from talking about bad head gaskets ("Coolant in the oil") to
talking about dealer service ("Vaseline in the pants").

Actually, I don't think I had much (if any) antifreeze in the oil. The
antifreeze had already leaked out completely through the tailpipe. At
the time, I started to run the car on pure tap water. That's when, I
assume, that the added water started to leak into the oil.

So far, I don't think that car is burning oil. I don't see any blue
smoke. When the mechanics had the head off, they did a valve job. Other
than that, they told me that the engine is still solid.

<<<<<well, you had non-oil over components that were supposed to get
OIL only. A
slew of mechanical failures were imminent and undoubtedly there's
additional
wear on mechanical parts like rings, rod bearings, internal mechnisms
etc..
I think it was a problem longer than you realize before they found it,
but
what's done is done. It may start burning oil sooner than later but I
see
its late in the engines life anyway. You should have the oil drained
and
checked periodically by letting it sit and separate (since coolant and
oil
dont mix) to be sure it's all gone out of the crankcase. I am sure
these
guys here will give you some horror stories and suggestions.>>>>>

> >My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a
blown
> >head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it
was
> >blown, I continued to drive the car.
>
>Not wise.

I couldn't afford to fix it at the time. At times, it was the only car
I had available to drive.

>> A few months later, the oil started to look a bit funny.
>
>A few *months* you drove it like this? Were you *trying* to kill your
car?

Actually, I was thinking about getting another car at the time, so I
basically planned to drive it until it went out.

I don't know exactly the length of time I drove it like this. During
that period before the head gasket replacement, I was only using the
car like once or twice a week. I drove my parents' cars much of the
time, but I had to use my car when no other car was available.

> >Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months)
>
>This kind of abuse and neglect is a large part of how certain kinds of
>cars get a reputation for being "unreliable".

Anyway, I've had my car for about 4 years. It's actually been a very
dependable car. I go on a lot of long trips with it still. I really
like the car overall.

I usually keep up with maintenance and do a lot of work on the car
myself. However, at the time of the head gasket failure, I was pretty
sick at the time, had to go to the hospital in the summer, and couldn't
really do anything about it.

>> The oil resembled the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were
also
>> white splotches inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons,
they
>> wouldn't change the oil. They told me that the head gasket was
beyond
>> gone and said that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed
to be
>>done ASAP possible is beyond me).
>
>Because when the head gasket fails, lots of bad things happen. Coolant
in
>the oil. Oil in the coolant. Coolant in the combustion chamber (bye
bye,
>O2 sensor and catalyst!) Combustion heat where it's not supposed to
be.
>This is not an optional, "When I get around to it" fix.

The head gasket failed at the water jacket behind #1 cylinder. The shop
had told me that #1 cylinder was full of water when they disassembled
the head.

Fortunately, in my case, it appeared that pretty much all of the
ethylene glycol antifreeze had already leaked out through the exhaust
pipe. After this happened, I started to use pure tap water in the
cooling system. Apparently, the water I was putting in started to leak
into the oil. The mechanics told me that they didn't find glycol stuff
in the oil; just water. That's probably one of the reasons why I got
lucky and the engine is still running fine.

Also, after my car was fixed, I had to replace the O2 sensor. The one I
took out had white flakes all over it (possibly from the antifreeze
coolant).

>> Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some
>> head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run
>> fine as far as I know.
>
>...which appears not to be very far beyond the tip of your nose...

When the head was off, the shop did a valve job and milled/shaved the
head since it was warped. I was surprised that the head was not even
cracked. Overall, the mechanics told me that the engine is still rock
solid.

>> What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I
>> think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it
fixed.
>
>You drove it like that for *months* before you got it fixed. Coolant
is a
>rotten engine lubricant when cold, even worse when baked and whipped
with
>hot oil. Your main bearings, cam bearings, big and small end rod
bearings
>will have suffered.
>
>But that's OK, 'cause you obviously don't care.

I didn't really care that much at the time because I was going towards
getting another car, but I had later changed my mind and decided to get
this one fixed since my friend told me that it was cheaper in the long
run to fix what you have.