Motortrend article: 100 MPG+ Chevy Volt, GM's "Moon Shot"

The answer is sitting in my driveway.

How many Fieros are still in daily use?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Perhaps, but you were talking about the Boxster being a sales success today,
> not a 944. Back in the day which would have purchased?
>
>
>
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 1988 Fiero GT - $14K
>>
>> http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Sp...r o&trimid=-1
>>
>> 1988 Porsche 944 - $31K
>>
>> http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...44&trim id=-1
>>
>> that's just about half the price.
>>
>> nate
>>
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> The Fiero was more like one tenth the price. LOL
>>>
>>>
>>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> What you say is true, but the Fiero was also a niche car. It failed;
>>>> Porsche didn't, they just come out with something newer and better every
>>>> 15 years or so. If the Fiero had been almost as good as a Porsche at
>>>> half the price, it'd have been redesigned twice and still on the market.
>>>>
>>>> nate
>>>>
>>>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>>> Really? The Boxster is a nitch market car? How many are sold at
>>>>> $60,000? How do you account for the fact when the two seat T-Bird hit
>>>>> the market it sold well, but two years later sales were in the dumper.
>>>>> When Ford decided to change it to a four seater, all the sages said it
>>>>> was a mistake to do so, but sales of the four seater T-Bird were
>>>>> quadruple those of the best annual sales of the two seater?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> No, it failed because it sucked. It wasn't until '88 that they
>>>>>> finally got it to the point where it was halfway decent. It's not
>>>>>> like the lack of a back seat has hurt Boxster sales to any appreciable
>>>>>> extent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>> The Fiero went away for the same reason most two seat cars eventually
>>>>>>> fail in the US, not enough buyers over time. The fact is woman are
>>>>>>> the major buyers of two seat cars. Could be it has to do with, 'no
>>>>>>> back seat' in which to get into trouble. Unlike men, woman tend to
>>>>>>> kept cars longer, more like their refrigerators. LOL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "E. Meyer" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> On 2/7/09 10:11 AM, in article , "ray"
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Fiero anyone - end up being not
>>>>>>>>>>> quite ready for prime time, and thus are discontinued due to poor
>>>>>>>>>>> reputation/sales just when they are finally starting to fulfill
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> initial promise)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> nate
>>>>>>>>>> The Fierro was a success but was discontinued because it cut into
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> sales of the more lucrative Corvette.
>>>>>>>>> The Fiero went away because by the time they ironed out all the
>>>>>>>>> bugs, no
>>>>>>>>> one wanted one anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 88's had a totally redone suspension, and they had fixed the
>>>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>>>> fires and all the misc problems the car had (I owned an 84 in 96
>>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>>> was fun but gutless), but by then, the car had nicknames like
>>>>>>>>> "Fiery
>>>>>>>>> Death Trap" and stuff so sales had tanked from close to 100k in 84
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> like 17k in 88.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>>> Same exact thing that happened to the diesels - by the time they got
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> kinks worked out, no one wanted them anymore & down they went.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>>>>>> http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>>>> --
>>>> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>>>> http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>>>
>>
>> --
>> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>> http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>
>


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On 2009-02-07, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> The answer is sitting in my driveway.
>
> How many Fieros are still in daily use?
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Perhaps, but you were talking about the Boxster being a sales success today,
>> not a 944. Back in the day which would have purchased?

I see far more 944 and 928 porsches on the road than fieros by a huge
margin, at least 5 to 1.

Nate Nagel wrote:
> The answer is sitting in my driveway.
>
> How many Fieros are still in daily use?
>
> nate

The ones that didn't burn up.



Seriously, I'd guess that the % of Fieros still on the road is not as
high as old Vettes, but a lot higher than most 24 year old cars. When
was the last time you saw a car from the mid 80's on the road? Not many
left as daily drivers. Fieros are reaching the point where they're
somewhat of a collector car and parts are kind of hard to get, so
they're more Sunday driver types.

Ray

ray wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> The answer is sitting in my driveway.
>>
>> How many Fieros are still in daily use?
>>
>> nate
>
> The ones that didn't burn up.
>
>
>
> Seriously, I'd guess that the % of Fieros still on the road is not as
> high as old Vettes, but a lot higher than most 24 year old cars. When
> was the last time you saw a car from the mid 80's on the road? Not many
> left as daily drivers. Fieros are reaching the point where they're
> somewhat of a collector car and parts are kind of hard to get, so
> they're more Sunday driver types.
>
> Ray

heh, the funny thing is that Porsche has a nasty habit of building cars
that do the same thing. Both the 914 and the 944 had fuel lines that
tended to split at a most inopportune time and spraying fuel + hot
exhaust = badness. Maybe GM was trying to copy some of Porsche's
engineering features?

Like I said, I still have a 944 as my primary vehicle, although I also
have the Impala for a company car so it only gets driven a couple times
a week now. I can't remember the last time I saw *any* Fiero, although
I do see a couple other 944s running around. 911s, of course, have a
high survival rate being a more expensive and theoretically collectible
vehicle.

The other point is that the 944 is a *real* sports car, even though
Porsche snobs look down at it and it has a back seat. It's common to
see 944s at autocrosses and road races to this day. I don't know that
Fieros were ever popular... I kind of look at them more like a Honda
Del Sol, a bit of a novelty, but not a real raceable machine.

I originally brought up the 944 because it fit the market niche back in
the 80s that is currently filled by the Boxster. In fact, the
924/944/968 was produced right up until the Boxster's intro... you
could go so far as to say that the 914 also filled the same niche,
meaning that Porsche has only redesigned twice since 1969. Not too
shabby really, although the 914 was pretty much a failure as well, being
completely outclassed by the contemporary 240Z.

nate

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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
...
> Really? The Boxster is a nitch market car? How many are sold at
> $60,000? How do you account for the fact when the two seat T-Bird hit the
> market it sold well, but two years later sales were in the dumper. When
> Ford decided to change it to a four seater, all the sages said it was a
> mistake to do so, but sales of the four seater T-Bird were quadruple those
> of the best annual sales of the two seater?
>
>

The History channel had a show about the T-Bird a few years back. According
to one of the GM people they interviewed, the sudden drop-off was a result
of public perception of two-seaters being "cads' cars" - the only thing a
man would want with it was to lure innocent maids.

Mike

Michael Pardee > wrote:
>
>The History channel had a show about the T-Bird a few years back. According
>to one of the GM people they interviewed, the sudden drop-off was a result
>of public perception of two-seaters being "cads' cars" - the only thing a
>man would want with it was to lure innocent maids.

As a fellow who grew up with MGs, I have to say that this is a foolish
misperception. Making out in a two-seater is not a pleasant experience
in great part because of the gearshift. The steering wheel does not help
matters either, mind you.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
> ...
>> Really? The Boxster is a nitch market car? How many are sold at
>> $60,000? How do you account for the fact when the two seat T-Bird hit the
>> market it sold well, but two years later sales were in the dumper. When
>> Ford decided to change it to a four seater, all the sages said it was a
>> mistake to do so, but sales of the four seater T-Bird were quadruple those
>> of the best annual sales of the two seater?
>>
>>
>
> The History channel had a show about the T-Bird a few years back. According
> to one of the GM people they interviewed, the sudden drop-off was a result
> of public perception of two-seaters being "cads' cars" - the only thing a
> man would want with it was to lure innocent maids.

Did it work?

nate

(not sure I'd want to know what kind of female would be attracted by my
cars... one that's real rough on the outside but beautiful and fast
inside?)

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> wrote in message ...
> In rec.autos.makers.honda Nate Nagel > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > If you were to disable regeneration, you would use more gasoline.
>
>> This is true, but you're just recapturing energy that was already put
>> into the system by the gasoline engine.
>
> That energy is discarded by any vehicle that doesn't have regeneration.
> Regeneration is consuming energy that needs to be dispersed to slow the
> car, lost as heat in conventional brakes. Regeneration is just as much a
> source of energy as recycling cans is a source of aluminum for new cans.
>

The source of energy is how the energy got into the car. The source was
gasoline. Like Elmo notes, regeneration is just how the car manages the
energy that was originally sourced from gas. The Prius is really good at
that management.
Tomes

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Really? The Boxster is a nitch market car? How many are sold at
>>> $60,000? How do you account for the fact when the two seat T-Bird hit
>>> the market it sold well, but two years later sales were in the dumper.
>>> When Ford decided to change it to a four seater, all the sages said it
>>> was a mistake to do so, but sales of the four seater T-Bird were
>>> quadruple those of the best annual sales of the two seater?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The History channel had a show about the T-Bird a few years back.
>> According to one of the GM people they interviewed, the sudden drop-off
>> was a result of public perception of two-seaters being "cads' cars" - the
>> only thing a man would want with it was to lure innocent maids.
>
> Did it work?
>

Dunno about T-Birds but my brother used to joke about all of us piling into
the Lotus and picking up chicks. Didn't work too great....

Mike

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:01:19 -0500, cast forth these pearls
of wisdom...:

>> Fiero anyone - end up being not
>>quite ready for prime time, and thus are discontinued due to poor
>>reputation/sales just when they are finally starting to fulfill their
>>initial promise)
>>
>>nate
>
> The Fierro was a success but was discontinued because it cut into the
> sales of the more lucrative Corvette.

That's funny.

People that buy Corvettes don't buy cars like Fierro's.

--

-Mike-