1990 Miata - What's a "fair" price?

Just looked at a 1990 white Miata, 49K original miles, 2nd owner. 60K
service has been done. New Panasport rims and Kuhmo tires (16").
Hella lamps, shock tower brace, front and rear underbody suspension
stiffeners. New battery (the right kind). White guage faces with
blue/green adjustable backlighting and a new rear view mirror with
courtesy/map lights. The car truly looks like it just rolled off the
assembly line. I looked at the body long and hard, and could not find
one rock chip, nick or dent (not even on the hood). The underside is
clean as well (no evidence of leaks or structural rust). The lights
come up quickly and evenly. The interior is mint, and the seat side
bolsters are unworn. It runs like a champ (as it should considering it
only has 49Kon it). I spent a bit of time going over it with the
miata.net checklist in front of me and everything looks good. It was
originally owned by a retired couple who put 40K on it in 11 years, and
is now owned by a 40 something couple who only drive it on nice
weekends, and almost always with the top down. They've put 10K on it
in almost 5 years. It appears to be a real cream puff, and looks
terrific.

Okay, I know about the potential crankshaft issue on the 1990 model.
This car has a new timing belt, but they did not remove the pulley. I
could feel no play in the pulley, and it spins true when running (no
wobble). The car is in the Chicago area, but clearly hasn't been
driven in bad weather (I'm not too sure it's even been driven in the
rain much). What do you think a fair price is, given it's mileage and
condition? I know what the KBB and Edmund's estimates are, but I can
tell you that I have seen NOTHING that I'd consider buying in this
market for anywhere near those prices, so I expect to pay more than
that to get a clean, solid car. Your advice/opinion is appreciated!

"Tom" > wrote in
ups.com:

> I know what the KBB and Edmund's estimates are, but I can tell you
> that I have seen NOTHING that I'd consider buying in this market
> for anywhere near those prices, so I expect to pay more than that
> to get a clean, solid car.

The KBB gives the price for a car in exactly the condition you
describe, look under "Excellent".

A fair price would be the KBB price. The rims, tires, etc. add ons are
worth nothing.

I understand how to read the KBB and Edmunds pricing guide, but I can
also tell you that there is no way in hell I'm going to find a car in
this shape, or in half this shape, in this market for anywhere near
$2500-$3000. I've been looking at these for a while now, and not only
are there NO Miatas listed at this price level, the asking prices for
even the ones with high mileage (>100K) and in so-so shape are much
higher than this. Trust me, I'd love to find this car for under $3K,
but it's just not realistic. I'd go so far as to say that you couldn't
even find it on E-Bay (and I've been lurking), and I wouldn't even
consider going that route. I apprieciate a hard line on sticking to
the blue book value, but market reality has to figure in the equation
somewhere. Any other opinions on this??

"Tom" > wrote in news:1146664365.899650.280770
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> I understand how to read the KBB and Edmunds pricing guide, but I can
> also tell you that there is no way in hell I'm going to find a car in
> this shape, or in half this shape, in this market for anywhere near
> $2500-$3000. I've been looking at these for a while now, and not only
> are there NO Miatas listed at this price level, the asking prices for
> even the ones with high mileage (>100K) and in so-so shape are much
> higher than this. Trust me, I'd love to find this car for under $3K,
> but it's just not realistic. I'd go so far as to say that you couldn't
> even find it on E-Bay (and I've been lurking), and I wouldn't even
> consider going that route. I apprieciate a hard line on sticking to
> the blue book value, but market reality has to figure in the equation
> somewhere. Any other opinions on this??
>

I think that when you look at cars that are 15+ years old, the book
values start to become a bit worthless for the buyer. With only rare
exceptions, no one is gonna sell a low-mileage, mint vehicle for $2k.
You can present the seller w/ a copy of edmunds fair price and try to get
them to come down a bit, but as you've stated yourself, you're not gonna
find a similar car in similar condition for lots cheaper. Do you expect
to keep this vehicle for a long time? I've had my 94 since 97 and expect
to keep it till it don't go no more. If that's your outlook and you're
not concerned about what you may be able to sell it for down the road,
then the car is basically worth what YOU think it is.

It comes down to what you want. Are you looking specificially for a '90,
for a 1.6l ('90-'93), or just a sub-$X Miata? If you really like the
1.6l, then there's added value for YOU. If you're just trying to find
the best deal on a low-mileage, good-condition Miata, then you might be
better off waiting for a deal on a somewhat newer model. Having not
researched it, I would expect you could find a 94-97 in simiar condition
for under $9k.

Do you like the aftermarket bits on that car.. while they don't add any
real market value, do they add value for you? If you really want the car
and are just trying to justify paying above "market" for it, take the
book value, and add what you think all the "upgrades" are worth to YOU.
Does that bring it close enough to the asking price?

I probably paid more than I should've for mine, but I've had it for
almost 9 years and 125k mi (in addition to the 45k it had when I got it).
Lets say I should've gotten mine for $1250 less than I paid.. that's an
overpayment of just 1 penny per mile and shrinking

-Scott

From time to time I think about selling my '91, which has less than 30K
on it and is probably in better condition than the one you describe. It
is not for sale but when I think about selling it I always come down to
two things: If I ever decided I wanted another sports car (a new one) I
would have to spend more than 20K. Also, I have checked prices on
Miatas for many years and concluded that I would be lucky to get 6K for
my Miata, even in the condition it is in.

I don't know what the asking price for the car you want is, but it seems
to me that generally speaking anything that sells for 4K or less is not
worth buying. I think 5 to 6K for a '90 Miata in the condition you
describe is not out of line, assuming you are not going to want to sell
it anytime soon and assuming the car is what you want.

Tom wrote:
> I understand how to read the KBB and Edmunds pricing guide, but I can
> also tell you that there is no way in hell I'm going to find a car in
> this shape, or in half this shape, in this market for anywhere near
> $2500-$3000. I've been looking at these for a while now, and not only
> are there NO Miatas listed at this price level, the asking prices for
> even the ones with high mileage (>100K) and in so-so shape are much
> higher than this. Trust me, I'd love to find this car for under $3K,
> but it's just not realistic. I'd go so far as to say that you couldn't
> even find it on E-Bay (and I've been lurking), and I wouldn't even
> consider going that route. I apprieciate a hard line on sticking to
> the blue book value, but market reality has to figure in the equation
> somewhere. Any other opinions on this??
>


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Good advice, and more in line with my train of thought. I am NOT
entering into this with the idea of selling the car anytime soon. And,
the upgrades that have been made are very much to my liking. The
seller is no doubt asking way too much ($7800), and I've already given
him my position on that so I have no doubt he expects me to make a
lower offer. In fact, when I asked how he came up with the number, he
said (and this is no lie) "that's what my kitchen cabinets cost" (the
reason he's selling is to pay for his kitchen remodel)! I'm thinking I
shoot for getting the car somwhere close to $6K, which I could live
with. From what I've seen, and I've been watching this market
carefully for a while now, any early model Miata in decent shape with
less than 100K miles is going for >$4500 ... and quite often in the
$5K-$7K range. So, unless I'm willing to fly in/drive out (with it's
added expense), while buying a car sight unseen, I'm pretty much a
slave to the market. Pretty good rationalization, eh??!!!

It's definitely original paint. I crawled all over (and under) that
car, and could see no signs of a repaint at all. And if I'm wrong, the
repaint is so good that I don't mind that it was done! Thanks for the
input, and I'll definiely let you know whether I'm successful or not.
I plan to make him an offer today.

Tom

"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:

>Tom,
>
>I think you're right on the mark. A first year miata in that kind of shape
>is nothing short of rare. I think if you decide $6k is your ceiling, just go
>armed with good info. You're being more than reasonable and if he won't or
>can't at least be reasonable, go back to looking. The search is part of the
>fun but this sounds like an awesome car. Some of the White ones had paint
>shedding problems,

It is the speed. It was only really solved when Mazda retreated from brilliant
white to plain white.

Leon

> could be that he's recently had this repainted. Have you
>pushed him on that? Of course, if it looks that good and was done properly,
>I'd think it better than original as the original paint might at any time
>decide to start leaping off the car.
>
>Good luck and let us know!
>Chris
>99BBB
>
>
>"Tom" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>> Good advice, and more in line with my train of thought. I am NOT
>> entering into this with the idea of selling the car anytime soon. And,
>> the upgrades that have been made are very much to my liking. The
>> seller is no doubt asking way too much ($7800), and I've already given
>> him my position on that so I have no doubt he expects me to make a
>> lower offer. In fact, when I asked how he came up with the number, he
>> said (and this is no lie) "that's what my kitchen cabinets cost" (the
>> reason he's selling is to pay for his kitchen remodel)! I'm thinking I
>> shoot for getting the car somwhere close to $6K, which I could live
>> with. From what I've seen, and I've been watching this market
>> carefully for a while now, any early model Miata in decent shape with
>> less than 100K miles is going for >$4500 ... and quite often in the
>> $5K-$7K range. So, unless I'm willing to fly in/drive out (with it's
>> added expense), while buying a car sight unseen, I'm pretty much a
>> slave to the market. Pretty good rationalization, eh??!!!
>>
>
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

So THAT'S why they shed their paint!

Chris
99BBB

"Leon van Dommelen" > wrote in message
...
> "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:
>
>>Tom,
>>
>>I think you're right on the mark. A first year miata in that kind of shape
>>is nothing short of rare. I think if you decide $6k is your ceiling, just
>>go
>>armed with good info. You're being more than reasonable and if he won't or
>>can't at least be reasonable, go back to looking. The search is part of
>>the
>>fun but this sounds like an awesome car. Some of the White ones had paint
>>shedding problems,
>
> It is the speed. It was only really solved when Mazda retreated from
> brilliant
> white to plain white.
>
> Leon
>
>> could be that he's recently had this repainted. Have you
>>pushed him on that? Of course, if it looks that good and was done
>>properly,
>>I'd think it better than original as the original paint might at any time
>>decide to start leaping off the car.
>>
>>Good luck and let us know!
>>Chris
>>99BBB
>>
>>
>>"Tom" > wrote in message
groups.com...
>>> Good advice, and more in line with my train of thought. I am NOT
>>> entering into this with the idea of selling the car anytime soon. And,
>>> the upgrades that have been made are very much to my liking. The
>>> seller is no doubt asking way too much ($7800), and I've already given
>>> him my position on that so I have no doubt he expects me to make a
>>> lower offer. In fact, when I asked how he came up with the number, he
>>> said (and this is no lie) "that's what my kitchen cabinets cost" (the
>>> reason he's selling is to pay for his kitchen remodel)! I'm thinking I
>>> shoot for getting the car somwhere close to $6K, which I could live
>>> with. From what I've seen, and I've been watching this market
>>> carefully for a while now, any early model Miata in decent shape with
>>> less than 100K miles is going for >$4500 ... and quite often in the
>>> $5K-$7K range. So, unless I'm willing to fly in/drive out (with it's
>>> added expense), while buying a car sight unseen, I'm pretty much a
>>> slave to the market. Pretty good rationalization, eh??!!!
>>>
>>
> --
> Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
> http://www.dommelen.net/miata
> The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in
:
>
> "Leon van Dommelen" > wrote in
> message ...

>> It is the speed. It was only really solved when Mazda retreated
>> from brilliant white to plain white.
>> Leon

> So THAT'S why they shed their paint!
> Chris
> 99BBB

Exactly, my 1993 white Jeep Grand Cherokee is also shedding the paint.
It's due to the speed and, to a lesser part, to the fact that the EPA
demanded a reformulation of paint around 198? or so and many cars of
that vintage shed their paint because it took a couple of years for the
manufacturers to figure how to get the new paint to stick to the
primer.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f...eel/index.html

Notice the article mentions Ford as also having peeling problems so
that covers the Miata (as well as Aston Martins, Jaguars, Land Rovers,
Lincolns, Mazdas, Mercurys, Volvos and any other Fords I forgot to
mention... they probably all bought paint from the same supplier.