Rigorous air filter comparison test

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping dirt!

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
>
> Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping dirt!

About what I suspected! The surprise to me was that the AC-Delco did so
well. I've been pretty much sold on Wix and Purolator for oil filters,
but I might have to go to the dark side next time I need an air filter.
I thought AC-Delco was still associated with GM somehow? Wonder how
they managed to make a product that doesn't suck? The only apparent
downside appears to be the higher initial flow restriction, but it looks
like it kicks ass in all other categories.

Too bad they didn't test any Mann or Mahle products, I'd sure be
interested to see how they stack up against the domestic brands. I've
been in the habit of ordering the German filters for my German cars
whenever I mail-order parts as the price is competitive with the parts
stores (and they generally aren't in stock at the parts store anyway)
and everyone "knows" they are better, but it would be nice to have some
hard data.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:

> > http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
> > Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping dirt!

> About what I suspected! The surprise to me was that the AC-Delco did so
> well. I've been pretty much sold on Wix and Purolator for oil filters,
> but I might have to go to the dark side next time I need an air filter.
> I thought AC-Delco was still associated with GM somehow?

It is, but be advised this was a test on air filters for *one specific
application* which happens to have been a GM Duramax diesel engine. I'd
hesitate to generalize these AC-Delco results to a non-GM application,
only because I don't know the degree to which AC-Delco buys and reboxes
filters for non-GM applications. I'd have to scrutinize the construction
details and compare to other filter makes to see.

> Too bad they didn't test any Mann or Mahle products, I'd sure be
> interested to see how they stack up against the domestic brands.

> Mann or Mahle, everyone "knows" they are better

Pffft. "It's German, so it *MUST* be better!" (and variants of the same
fairy tale) is the only existing basis for such opinions.

DS

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> > http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
>> > Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping dirt!
>
>> About what I suspected! The surprise to me was that the AC-Delco did so
>> well. I've been pretty much sold on Wix and Purolator for oil filters,
>> but I might have to go to the dark side next time I need an air filter.
>> I thought AC-Delco was still associated with GM somehow?
>
> It is, but be advised this was a test on air filters for *one specific
> application* which happens to have been a GM Duramax diesel engine. I'd
> hesitate to generalize these AC-Delco results to a non-GM application,
> only because I don't know the degree to which AC-Delco buys and reboxes
> filters for non-GM applications. I'd have to scrutinize the construction
> details and compare to other filter makes to see.
>
>> Too bad they didn't test any Mann or Mahle products, I'd sure be
>> interested to see how they stack up against the domestic brands.
>
>> Mann or Mahle, everyone "knows" they are better
>
> Pffft. "It's German, so it *MUST* be better!" (and variants of the same
> fairy tale) is the only existing basis for such opinions.
>
> DS

John Deere filters have their filtration standard printed on the can. I
don't know who makes their engine oil filters but in common with many other
manufacturers their other filters are made variously by Mann, Donaldson,
UCC, Stanadyne and others. What is important is that they are tailored to
the application. Original equipment filters can be beaten but they are more
than up to the job in the absence of evidence to the contrary so why bother
risking your equipment with spurious parts of unknown performance.
If your original air cleaner element blocks prematurely then fit a big
****-off Donaldson or Locker Air Maze unit as fitted to a tractor or such
rather than piddle about with fancy brand foam or other toy parts.
Ultimately you could fix a venturi to the exhaust system to suck all the
bigger **** out of the air cleaner to be literally 'exhausted'. At least you
will know that these industrial units will take a whole lot of ****. In fact
most of these units, say off a 80hp tractor will have an element life of
about the life of the car without cleaning or replacing.
Personally and unless extreme conditions are likely, like desert convoy
operation, I would just stay with original equipment.

Huw

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> > http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
>> > Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping dirt!
>
>> About what I suspected! The surprise to me was that the AC-Delco did so
>> well. I've been pretty much sold on Wix and Purolator for oil filters,
>> but I might have to go to the dark side next time I need an air filter.
>> I thought AC-Delco was still associated with GM somehow?
>
> It is, but be advised this was a test on air filters for *one specific
> application* which happens to have been a GM Duramax diesel engine. I'd
> hesitate to generalize these AC-Delco results to a non-GM application,
> only because I don't know the degree to which AC-Delco buys and reboxes
> filters for non-GM applications. I'd have to scrutinize the construction
> details and compare to other filter makes to see.
>
>> Too bad they didn't test any Mann or Mahle products, I'd sure be
>> interested to see how they stack up against the domestic brands.
>
>> Mann or Mahle, everyone "knows" they are better
>
> Pffft. "It's German, so it *MUST* be better!" (and variants of the same
> fairy tale) is the only existing basis for such opinions.
>
> DS

John Deere filters have their filtration standard printed on the can. I
don't know who makes their engine oil filters but in common with many other
manufacturers their other filters are made variously by Mann, Donaldson,
UCC, Stanadyne and others. What is important is that they are tailored to
the application. Original equipment filters can be beaten but they are more
than up to the job in the absence of evidence to the contrary so why bother
risking your equipment with spurious parts of unknown performance.
If your original air cleaner element blocks prematurely then fit a big
****-off Donaldson or Locker Air Maze unit as fitted to a tractor or such
rather than piddle about with fancy brand foam or other toy parts.
Ultimately you could fix a venturi to the exhaust system to suck all the
bigger **** out of the air cleaner to be literally 'exhausted'. At least you
will know that these industrial units will take a whole lot of ****. In fact
most of these units, say off a 80hp tractor will have an element life of
about the life of the car without cleaning or replacing.
Personally and unless extreme conditions are likely, like desert convoy
operation, I would just stay with original equipment.

Huw

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> > > http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
> > > Interesting stuff. Just look how well that K&N did at stopping
dirt!
>
> > About what I suspected! The surprise to me was that the AC-Delco
did so
> > well. I've been pretty much sold on Wix and Purolator for oil
filters,
> > but I might have to go to the dark side next time I need an air
filter.
> > I thought AC-Delco was still associated with GM somehow?
>
> It is, but be advised this was a test on air filters for *one
specific
> application* which happens to have been a GM Duramax diesel engine.
I'd
> hesitate to generalize these AC-Delco results to a non-GM
application,
> only because I don't know the degree to which AC-Delco buys and
reboxes
> filters for non-GM applications. I'd have to scrutinize the
construction
> details and compare to other filter makes to see.
>
> > Too bad they didn't test any Mann or Mahle products, I'd sure be
> > interested to see how they stack up against the domestic brands.
>
> > Mann or Mahle, everyone "knows" they are better
>
> Pffft. "It's German, so it *MUST* be better!" (and variants of the
same
> fairy tale) is the only existing basis for such opinions.
>
> DS

Well, in my experience, I've never had a truly *BAD* German-made
product, which sadly, I can't say for domestic products. So buying
German does seem to give some amount of assurance that you are getting
at least an acceptable quality product. Now whether it's *superior* or
not, that's another question entirely.

nate

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:

> Well, in my experience, I've never had a truly *BAD* German-made
> product, which sadly, I can't say for domestic products. So buying
> German does seem to give some amount of assurance that you are getting
> at least an acceptable quality product.

My experience differs. Everyone makes crap, all over the world. Some
countries, to varying degrees, also make good stuff.

My experience with German cars has been awful.

DS

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
>
> > Well, in my experience, I've never had a truly *BAD* German-made
> > product, which sadly, I can't say for domestic products. So buying
> > German does seem to give some amount of assurance that you are getting
> > at least an acceptable quality product.
>
> My experience differs. Everyone makes crap, all over the world. Some
> countries, to varying degrees, also make good stuff.
>
> My experience with German cars has been awful.

In my family two out of three VW products (all German made)
were bad. The third was mostly OK after warranty problems
with the A/C were sorted out, but hen I only kept it for 2
years and 50k miles (an Audi Coupe). The other two (a Jetta
and a Passat) were trouble prone pieces of junk. My SO's son
has a 10 year old BMW 740i that is a maintenance nightmare
(just why do taillights sockets "wear out" and cost $100 to
replace?). Things going for German cars: good driving
dynamics, attractive, if not exciting, styling; good room
(compare a mid sized German Car to a "mid sized Japanese car
- the Japanese need new rulers). Bad things about German
cars: expensive; overly complex; mediocre reliability. A
co-worker was here on assignment from Germany. When I
quizzed him about the apparent unreliability of German cars,
he claimed it was because of a difference in philosophy.
According to him, there are few cars in Germany older than
eight years because of the inspection requirements and used
cars are not popular. Therefore German manufacturer's don't
understand the American market where people drive cars into
the ground, and then try to drive them some more. The
Japanese have similar home market opinions, but apparently
their market planners and engineers at least understand the
American market better.

Ed

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
>
> > Well, in my experience, I've never had a truly *BAD* German-made
> > product, which sadly, I can't say for domestic products. So buying
> > German does seem to give some amount of assurance that you are getting
> > at least an acceptable quality product.
>
> My experience differs. Everyone makes crap, all over the world. Some
> countries, to varying degrees, also make good stuff.
>
> My experience with German cars has been awful.

In my family two out of three VW products (all German made)
were bad. The third was mostly OK after warranty problems
with the A/C were sorted out, but hen I only kept it for 2
years and 50k miles (an Audi Coupe). The other two (a Jetta
and a Passat) were trouble prone pieces of junk. My SO's son
has a 10 year old BMW 740i that is a maintenance nightmare
(just why do taillights sockets "wear out" and cost $100 to
replace?). Things going for German cars: good driving
dynamics, attractive, if not exciting, styling; good room
(compare a mid sized German Car to a "mid sized Japanese car
- the Japanese need new rulers). Bad things about German
cars: expensive; overly complex; mediocre reliability. A
co-worker was here on assignment from Germany. When I
quizzed him about the apparent unreliability of German cars,
he claimed it was because of a difference in philosophy.
According to him, there are few cars in Germany older than
eight years because of the inspection requirements and used
cars are not popular. Therefore German manufacturer's don't
understand the American market where people drive cars into
the ground, and then try to drive them some more. The
Japanese have similar home market opinions, but apparently
their market planners and engineers at least understand the
American market better.

Ed

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
>
>
>>Well, in my experience, I've never had a truly *BAD* German-made
>>product, which sadly, I can't say for domestic products. So buying
>>German does seem to give some amount of assurance that you are getting
>>at least an acceptable quality product.
>
>
> My experience differs. Everyone makes crap, all over the world. Some
> countries, to varying degrees, also make good stuff.
>
> My experience with German cars has been awful.
>
> DS

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I know where
you're coming from, but IME I've driven German cars that were well past
their "best before" date and had only what I consider to be a very
reasonable amount of problems.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel