K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Gordon McGrew wrote:
<snip>
> Note far more information and data is this site. The K&N site is long
> on sales pitch but short on actual data.

you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
like that. ever seen the movie, "thank you for smoking"?. if not, rent
it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
whoever his name is.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:30:37 -0700, jim beam >
wrote:

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
><snip>
>> Note far more information and data is this site. The K&N site is long
>> on sales pitch but short on actual data.
>
>you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
>also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
>living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
>like that. ever seen the movie, "thank you for smoking"?. if not, rent
>it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
>whoever his name is.

Thanks for the tip. I like documentaries and consumer issues, so it
sounds like a must see.

I am aware of "guerilla marketing" tactics where (beautiful) people
are paid to go into public and pretend to be just people
surreptitiously exposing strangers to a brand/product. Creating
"buzz" you know. I think this type of activity should be illegal. If
they want to hawk their products in public they should be required to
state at the outset that they are paid marketers.

jim beam wrote:
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
> <snip>
> > Note far more information and data is this site. The K&N site is long
> > on sales pitch but short on actual data.
>
> you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
> also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
> living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
> like that. ever seen the movie, "thank you for smoking"?. if not, rent
> it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
> whoever his name is.


Hey Jim Beam or whatever your name is -- I am not a sales troll. I am a
Honda owner (two of them) and thought I would participate in this
forum. I was simply providing MY OPINION and also allowing someone from
KnN an opportunity to WEIGH IN on the thread. Is that what this forum
is about?

You've made quite a personal SLAM here. I do not appreciate it AT ALL.
If you were standing in front of me, I bet you would not have the
courage to say that to my face.

Just because you dont like K&N filters, and you obviously dont like any
opinions other than your own, next time you try to assassinate
someone's character, ask yourself: WOULD YOU HAVE THE GONADS TO SAY IT
TO THEIR FACE?

Felton Barch wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Note far more information and data is this site. The K&N site is long
>>> on sales pitch but short on actual data.
>> you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
>> also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
>> living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
>> like that. ever seen the movie, "thank you for smoking"?. if not, rent
>> it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
>> whoever his name is.
>
>
> Hey Jim Beam or whatever your name is -- I am not a sales troll. I am a
> Honda owner (two of them) and thought I would participate in this
> forum. I was simply providing MY OPINION and also allowing someone from
> KnN an opportunity to WEIGH IN on the thread. Is that what this forum
> is about?
>
> You've made quite a personal SLAM here. I do not appreciate it AT ALL.
> If you were standing in front of me, I bet you would not have the
> courage to say that to my face.
>
> Just because you dont like K&N filters, and you obviously dont like any
> opinions other than your own, next time you try to assassinate
> someone's character, ask yourself: WOULD YOU HAVE THE GONADS TO SAY IT
> TO THEIR FACE?
>
grow up felton or steve or whatever your name is. as it happens, i
would say it to your face. trust me on that one. but before we take
this out to the parking lot, here's some homework for you:

modern filtration standards that allow an engine to keep within
reasonable emissions levels for 100k miles, require filtration
efficiency of 99.8% by weight. typical road use particle size spectrum
is 0.01 microns to 2mm, with 75% being in the 5 to 100 micron range.

so, regarding this filter that you believe performs so well,

1. what is the filtration efficiency?
2. what is the particle size spectrum it filters?

and most importantly,

3. how does "cleaning" affect this filtration profile?

no hurry, but please take the trouble to let us know when you have the
answers. it would also be good to know your opinions on how many miles
you think is acceptable for engine life being as particle ingestion has
a direct effect on wear.

ps. you may find some independent research useful:
http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbploc...011/SPICER.htm

In article >,
"'Curly Q. Links'" > wrote:

> Are / were they any good and why aren't they used on modern passenger
> cars?

Very old Volkswagens--pre-1970--used oil-bath filters. It was a can full
of excelsior with holes in the bottom sitting in ANOTHER can that you
put oil in. The maintenance procedure was pretty simple: every time you
changed the oil, you took the filter off the carb, separated the two
cans, washed the top can out in gas and cleaned the old oil and the crap
it collected out of the bottom can. After you let the gas drain out of
the upper can, you put a quart of oil in the bottom can, reassembled the
filter and bolted it back on the carburetor.

Pros: The oil-bath filter worked VERY well. Mount Saint Helens erupted
when I was a kid, and the town I lived in (St. Maries, Idaho) got belted
with this crap--we were, IIRC, the town that got the second-heaviest
ashfall. The only people who were running cars until the ash was cleaned
up were the cops, who changed oil, oil filter and air filter twice a day
(and it was a damn good thing there were only three cops in St. Maries,
and people with aircooled Volkswagens. The aircooled VW people changed
their air filter oil once every three days, their crankcase oil--Bugs
have no oil filters--and didn't suffer any engine damage.

Cons: The unit is huge. It is heavy. It requires a LOT of maintenance
steps you don't have to take with a paper filter. They quit making
excelsior when upholsterers went to polyurethane foam. And you know that
with all the air coming through such a filter, some oil will go into the
engine, be burned and trash your pollution numbers.

Apparently the pros (very clean air) are outweighed by the cons
(maintaining this thing SUCKS and you have no room to put the thing
under your hood anyway).

--jm

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:11:14 GMT, Jim Mowreader > wrote:


>In article >,
> "'Curly Q. Links'" > wrote:

>> Are / were they any good and why aren't they used on modern passenger
>> cars?

>Very old Volkswagens--pre-1970--used oil-bath filters. It was a can full
They were used for a few years later than that. I had a '71 superbug that
had an oil bath air cleaner. I dunno about the fuel injected bugs that arrived
around '73, but all the carburated bugs had oil bath air filters.

A friend of mine of a few years back had a V12 jag. It had the distinct
feature of having carbs that leaked oil; or was it just the air cleaners?

"Earle Horton" > wrote in
om:

> "Nino NoSpam" > wrote in message
> news:w7aug.193342$IK3.97146@pd7tw1no...
>> Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K & N air filters for your
>> Honda? Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to
>> pay $70-85 CAD upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit?
>> I mean really, where's the savings? If they were that good wouldn't
>> manufacturers install them from the factory? What about warranty?
>> Do they void the warranty?
>>

> I have to be skeptical of claims that it flows significantly more air
> than a stock OEM filter,

Just get a generic cone air filter off ebay. It comes with the intake
piping and everything for just about 15 bucks. It does make a difference
and it's cheap as hell. I was surprised when I first tried one. Made my
stock civic sound like a WWII bomber plane on a dive without modifying
the exhaust at all. Better performance at high rpms. Seemed to give
better fuel milage. Cheap. Can't beat it.