Using a trickle charger - any rules on this?

"y_p_w" > wrote in message
...
> So here's the deal. The car is a Honda Civic with a group 51 battery
> (Kirkland Signature from Costco if that helps). Every once in a while
> the battery is heavily drained because a light (map light or headlamp)
> was left on. I do find it annoying that there is no headlight-on
> warning chime or auto-off. Sometimes it starts and sometimes it needs
> a jump; a portable jump starter always does the trick. The car itself
> is driven maybe a few times a month for short distances along with the
> occasional long trip.
>
> So I got a simple Schumacher Electric 1 amp, 12 V trickle charger -
> the kind with thin wires and light-duty clamps coming out of a wall-
> wart. It's labeled as a "manual charger" and the box/directions state
> that it's suitable for charging motorcycle and other small batteries,
> or for keeping auto batteries warm. I wasn't sure if I could justify
> getting anything more expensive like a higher output charger or maybe
> even a float charger/maintainer with a charge sensing mechanism.
>
> So I'm wondering how safe this is with a group 51 battery, which is on
> the small side for auto batteries? I realize that it's not likely to
> fully charge up a depleted battery unless it's on for days at a time.
> How safe is a 1 amp charge if uncontrolled like a float charger? I've
> heard some concerns that it could potentially overcharge - that maybe .
> 25 amp is about the limit for safe trickle charging. I've heard other
> comments that it's effectively a trickle charge that could safely be
> left on a fully charged car battery for days if not indefinitely.

If it's a manual charger then you have to watch it. If it's a sealed
battery then you can't check the specific gravity so it's more difficult to
determine when the battery is fully charged. Personally I like to use a
Smart Charger and periodically use the Desulfate and Equalize features,
especially if one or two cells are a bit lower than the others. If the
Smart Charger shuts off and I don't think it's quite done yet (all cells not
equal) then I'll use a 1/2-1 amp charger for an extended period of time,
checking it regularly. But I don't think, under most circumstances, that
you can properly recharge a car battery with that low of a charge rate if
it's considerably discharged.

Thus spake y_p_w > :

>On Jun 24, 1:54*pm, y_p_w > wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." > wrote:
>>
>> > A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
>> > been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
>> > the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
>> > about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime.
>>
>> My 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX doesn't have a headlamp warning chime, but
>> it does have a headlamp auto-off feature. *Same goes for some
>> relatives' Toyota Camry.
>>
>> I did some research and I think I know what the problem is.
>> Apparently the driver's side door open switch can get stuck to the
>> closed position. *I've noticed that the dome light doesn't turn on
>> when the driver's side door is open and it's switched to the center
>> (door selected) position. *Apparently the headlamp-on warning or key-
>> in-ignition warning chimes don't activate until the driver's side door
>> is sensed open.
>>
>> http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...&page_number=1
>
>As a follow-up, I got home and checked it for this little switch. The
>first thing I noticed was that all three other doors worked fine with
>the dome light. Next, the little switch felt loose. I first tried
>prying it back (bending it) when I then noticed that there was a
>little hatch that opened to reveal the screw. The little switch was
>actually not connected to the rubber/metal switch cover. I think it
>was supposed to be grounded to the body via the screw, but the ground
>clips on the switch were always loose (might have even been shaking
>around in there never depressed).
>
>So now when the driver's side door is open and the headlights are on,
>it gives off a loud whine. Of course it doesn't do anything when the
>map lights are on. :-(

Um, did you not turn them on? Turn them off. If you're leaving them
on that much, start looking up when you get out of the car.

And yes, you're battery is very likely shot or nearly so. If this
summer doesn't kill it (right now (1430 CDT) it's 103, probably hit
105), this winter will. Depends on your latitude.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

"Jimmy, I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out
to be a cylon."
-Special Agent Tim McGee, "NCIS"

On Jun 25, 12:39*pm, Dillon Pyron >
wrote:
> Thus > :
>
>
>
> >On Jun 24, > wrote:
> >> On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." > wrote:
>
> >> > A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
> >> > been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
> >> > the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
> >> > about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime.
>
> >> My 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX doesn't have a headlamp warning chime, but
> >> it does have a headlamp auto-off feature. *Same goes for some
> >> relatives' Toyota Camry.
>
> >> I did some research and I think I know what the problem is.
> >> Apparently the driver's side door open switch can get stuck to the
> >> closed position. *I've noticed that the dome light doesn't turn on
> >> when the driver's side door is open and it's switched to the center
> >> (door selected) position. *Apparently the headlamp-on warning or key-
> >> in-ignition warning chimes don't activate until the driver's side door
> >> is sensed open.
>
> >>http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...&page_number=1
>
> >As a follow-up, I got home and checked it for this little switch. *The
> >first thing I noticed was that all three other doors worked fine with
> >the dome light. *Next, the little switch felt loose. *I first tried
> >prying it back (bending it) when I then noticed that there was a
> >little hatch that opened to reveal the screw. *The little switch was
> >actually not connected to the rubber/metal switch cover. *I think it
> >was supposed to be grounded to the body via the screw, but the ground
> >clips on the switch were always loose (might have even been shaking
> >around in there never depressed).
>
> >So now when the driver's side door is open and the headlights are on,
> >it gives off a loud whine. *Of course it doesn't do anything when the
> >map lights are on. *:-(
>
> Um, did you not turn them on? *Turn them off. *If you're leaving them
> on that much, start looking up when you get out of the car.

The map lights are not being left on by myself (I thought I said
that). They're usually left on by someone else looking for stuff
inside the car before exiting. Usually this is after I've already
left the car and/or when I'm not driving the car. While I may not
have left them on, I'm the one who's being asked to rectify the
situation. I would also note that occasionally my car's map lights
have been left on, and after 5+ years the OE battery would barely have
enough to start the car on a cold engine even after being driven 40
miles earlier. I recently got a new battery and hopefully the
mistakes of the past won't be repeated.

The headlamp chime has been fixed. That thing is loud and I doubt I
or anyone else will forget to turn off the headlights now.

> And yes, you're battery is very likely shot or nearly so. *If this
> summer doesn't kill it (right now (1430 CDT) it's 103, probably hit
> 105), this winter will. *Depends on your latitude.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Right now it's mid-day and
about 72°F. Winter temps might dip as low as the high 30s F. While I
suppose we may need to put up with earthquakes, batteries tend to last
a long time even when they get abused.

"y_p_w" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 25, 6:11 am, "William Munny" > wrote:
> "y_p_w" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > So here's the deal. The car is a Honda Civic with a group 51 battery
> > (Kirkland Signature from Costco if that helps). Every once in a while
> > the battery is heavily drained because a light (map light or headlamp)
> > was left on. I do find it annoying that there is no headlight-on
> > warning chime or auto-off. Sometimes it starts and sometimes it needs
> > a jump; a portable jump starter always does the trick. The car itself
> > is driven maybe a few times a month for short distances along with the
> > occasional long trip.


> Tell your wife or teenager that the next time they leave the car light on
> and the battery drains, they will need to pay for a tow truck to come out
> for a jump...

> End of problem, no trickle charger needed...


> Well - the deal is that I'd end up paying for it, and occasionally I'm
> the guilty party from turning on the lights during the day (typically for
> visibility in forest roads).

> The map lights however are usually not my fault and typically they only
> require a jump if left on overnight or for days at home.



Don't be such an enabler. Tell the kid to get his ass off his computer and
get a job--- and the old lady too.

And if your cognitive skills are such that you repeatedly leave your lights
on while driving in the woods, how are you going to remember to hook up the
charger every time you bring your car home? Also, a guy like you should
think twice before venturing out in the woods so dark and deep. You'll get
lost for sure and the fire department, cops or forest service will end up
wasting hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars mounting a search for
you...

On Jun 25, 2:33*pm, "William Munny" > wrote:
> "y_p_w" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 25, 6:11 am, "William Munny" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "y_p_w" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > So here's the deal. The car is a Honda Civic with a group 51 battery
> > > (Kirkland Signature from Costco if that helps). Every once in a while
> > > the battery is heavily drained because a light (map light or headlamp)
> > > was left on. I do find it annoying that there is no headlight-on
> > > warning chime or auto-off. Sometimes it starts and sometimes it needs
> > > a jump; a portable jump starter always does the trick. The car itself
> > > is driven maybe a few times a month for short distances along with the
> > > occasional long trip.
> > Tell your wife or teenager that the next time they leave the car light on
> > and the battery drains, they will need to pay for a tow truck to come out
> > for a jump...
> > End of problem, no trickle charger needed...
> > *Well - the deal is that I'd end up paying for it, and occasionally I'm
> > the guilty party from turning on the lights during the day (typically for
> > visibility in forest roads).
> > The map lights however are usually not my fault and typically they only
> > require a jump if left on overnight or for days at home.
>
> Don't be such an enabler. Tell the kid to get his ass off his computer and
> get a job--- and the old lady too.
>
> And if your cognitive skills are such that you repeatedly leave your lights
> on while driving in the woods, how are you going to remember to hook up the
> charger every time you bring your car home? Also, a guy like you should
> think twice before venturing out in the woods so dark and deep. You'll get
> lost for sure and the fire department, cops or forest service will end up
> wasting hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars mounting a search for
> you...

Uh yeah.

Really - I got used to the headlamp switching off with the ignition on
my Subaru. My wife has also forgotten. It's not going to be a
problem now with the door-open switch fixed.

Didn't I mention that I always carry one of those portable battery
jump starters? I remember once driving the Civic to Lassen Volcanic
National Park, accidentally leaving the lights on for about an hour at
the trailhead. When I got back the starter wouldn't turn, I went to
the trunk to get the jump starter, and opened the hood to connect it.
Then a law enforcement park ranger came up, noticed the car with the
hood up, and asked if I needed a jump. I showed him the jump starter,
briefly explained what it did, and he said it sounded like a good
idea. This happened to be with the factory battery, which has since
been replaced.

That jump starter has helped out a bunch of time with weak/dying
batteries (before getting a replacement), lights on, etc. I've
actually used it several times to help friends or complete strangers
start their cars. It's a heck of a lot easier than trying to get
batteries close enough to each other and/or jumper cables that are
long enough. It's also great when I can't flag anyone down for a
jump.

So far nobody's had to fish me out on the trail. In fact once I
helped a lost kid (separated from his high school group) find his way
back to the trailhead. Otherwise they might have sent out search
teams to find him.

"William Munny" > wrote in message
...

> Don't be such an enabler. Tell the kid to get his ass off his computer and
> get a job--- and the old lady too.

We had a nice little old aunt who could not remember to close the doors, or
glove
compartment, or anything else on her new Avalon. She would buy meat and
leave it
in the trunk for several days.

Finally, the family removed the map light, interior lights and trunk light.
That stopped
the dead batteries but not the roadkill smell.

~1amp is pretty much a "maintainer". It may charge a batter but will
take a long time. A 2/4/6 or 2/4/10 electronically controlled charger
would be a better choice. That should get you close to the standard C/
10 rate. They typically have 2-3 modes depending on how discharged a
battery is. Then they go into trickle mode after that.

Yeah. At least in the US it's now *required* to have a key chime, not
an "option".

On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." > wrote:
> A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
> been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
> the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
> about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime. The other option is to
> install a battery buddy. They monitor the draw on the battery and cut
> the power before it gets to low to fail starting the vehicle.
>
> --
> Steve W.

If you are concerned with 1 amp overcharging the battery then all
one has to do is plug the charger into an automatic timer set for a
few hours a day.

I've done this with NIMH batteries and low amperage dumb chargers.
With this method you can't ruin the batteries and you'll always have a
spare set of fully charged batteries.

On Jun 29, 11:09*pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >
wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *john > wrote:
> > Yeah. At least in the US it's now *required* to have a key chime, not
> > an "option".
>
> Not a key chime--a headlights on chime. *THAT'S what he's missing. *He
> leaves the headlights on, and that runs down the battery.

Again - I fixed the door switch and now the headlights on chime is
very, very noticeable. The key chime also now works too; that was
never there either. They both required the door switch to work and
that wasn't functional until I connected it and reseated it in the
door jamb.