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Will switching from Synthetic to Dyno oil harm my engine?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 21st 04, 07:17 AM
Philip
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"JP" > wrote in message

> SNIP
>>
>> I use Castrol or Valvoline dino in my cars, change oil and filter (
>> Motorcraft Fl400-S) every 90 days or 3,000 miles, and have never
>> had an engine problem related to oil. n e v e r.
>>
>> Go figure. If you want to spend the extra $ on synthetic, it's
>> your money, be my guest.
>>
>> Lg

>
> Dino oil is, indeed, good. Nobody will deny it. But what other
> folks here are trying to say is that a good quality synthetic oil
> is soooooo muuuuuuuuch better.
> ;-)
> JP


If our oils also carried the MB (Mercedes Benz) oil rating system on the
label, you would see that API sets the MINIMUM performance standard ... not
the actual performance level of the oil above the minimum.

--

- Philip


Ads
  #22  
Old December 21st 04, 10:41 AM
Ted Mittelstaedt
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"James C. Reeves" > wrote in message
...
>


> > one hundred fifteen undollars....

> Yes...$115 more for the Dino regimen OR $115 less for the Mobil-1 regimen.
> I already got that.
>


This is a pretty manufactured comparison. As a point of fact, I have never
paid more
than $1.00 per quart of dino oil. I wait until it goes on sale. Dan is
probably only
used to buying stuff at places like NAPA and doesen't realize that the
Checkers/Kragen/Schucks
people regularly discount dino oil, sometimes down to 49 cents a quart with
rebate.

I would be happy to post scans of my last 5-6 cash register receipts that
clearly
show oil purchases at below $1.00 a quart if someone here wants to continue
the rediculous claim that dino oil costs $2.10 a quart. And this is from
this year
since I buy as many cases as I can at the $1.00 a quart cost when it does go
on sale. And this is name brand Chevron or Havoline oil also.

By contrast it is -extremely- rare for synthetic oil to be discounted - and
when it
is discounted, invariably it is only via rebate - and the fine print only
allows 1 rebate
per year per household. And also it isn't discounted much.

Ted


  #23  
Old December 21st 04, 01:28 PM
Rob Munach
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>
>>In older cars, especially those with an uncertain oil change history or
>>lots of hours in hot environments (like Arizona, for example), switching
>>from dino to synthetic can dissolve deposits that old and hardened seals
>>were depending on. The affected seals can then leak

>
>
> This nonsense has been around since the advent of synthetic auto engine
> oil three decades ago. It wasn't true then, and it still isn't.
>
>
>>In my mind, the main value in synthetic is the much higher detergency.

>
>
> The only place synthetic oils have "higher detergency" is...in your mind.
>

Nonsense. Put AMSOIL in an sludged up motor and see what happens.

--
Rob Munach, PE
Excel Engineering
PO Box 1264
Carrboro, NC 27510
  #24  
Old December 21st 04, 03:03 PM
C. E. White
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"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>
> > I use Castrol or Valvoline dino in my cars, change oil and filter (
> > Motorcraft Fl400-S) every 90 days or 3,000 miles, and have never had
> > an engine problem related to oil. n e v e r. Go figure.

>
> I wave my left arm in a semicircle eight times every hour on the hour
> between 8AM and 8PM weekdays (10AM and 12AM weekends) and have never been
> attacked by a pink crocodile. n e v e r. Go figure.
>
> Correlation does not imply causation.
>
> > If you want to spend the extra $ on synthetic, it's your money, be my
> > guest.

>
> Well, let's do the math, shall we?
>
> Castrol or Valvoline's at about $2.10/qt including tax.
> Mobil-1's at about $5.10/qt including tax.
> An FL400S filter is about $4.20 including tax.
>
> Let's say your car takes 5 quarts and you want to drive it for 60,000
> miles.
>
> If you're changing dino oil every 3k miles, that's 20 filters and 100
> quarts, so $210 worth of oil and $84 worth of filters. Total oil costs in
> 60k miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $294.
>
> If you're changing Mobil-1 every 9k miles, that's 6 filters and 30 quarts,
> so $153 worth of oil and $25.20 worth of filters. Total oil costs in 60k
> miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $178.20.
>
> "Extra money" spent on synthetic: one hundred fifteen undollars and eighty
> uncents.


I see several problems with this comparison. Problem 1: You
assume that the "dino" oil is shot at 3000 miles while the
Mobil 1 is good till 9000 miles. While I might agree that
the Mobil 1 is OK to 9000 miles, I don't agree that good
quality "dino" oil is shot at 3000 miles. If you are willing
to go for longer oil change intervals, why not assume the
"dino" oil is good till 5000 miles or 6000 miles or
whatever. You just picked a number that made your example
work. Problem 2: Why do you assume you must change the oil
filter every 3000 miles when you use conventional oil but
that it is OK to use the same filter for 9000 miles with
synthetic oil? I never change oil without changing the
filter. However, if the filter can handle 9000 miles of
contaminants when you are using synthetic oil, surely it
could handle at least 6000 miles worth of contaminants when
using "dino" oil. Problem 3: The warranty requirements for
all of my cars require 5000 mile oil changes (3000 mile
severe service) and don't give you any credit for using
synthetic oil. So I can't really do the 9000 mile oil change
routine without some risk to my warranty.

How about this comparison

Conventional Oil (using the severe service schedule):

6000 miles = 20 3,000 mile 5 qt. oil changes (severe service
schedule)
Oil cost = 100 x $2.10 a quart = $210 (excessively high, but
you used this cost)
Filter cost = 20 x $4.20 = $84.00 (are these Canadian
costs???)
Total cost = $210 + $84 = $294 (your figure, assuming 5 qt
oil capacity)

Synthetic Oil (using the normal service schedule):

6000 miles = 12 5,000 mile 5 qt. oil changes (severe service
schedule)
Oil cost = 60 x $5.10 a quart = $306
Filter cost = 12 x $4.20 = $50.40
Total cost = $306 + $50.40 = $356.40

So, the synthetic oil is over $60 more expensive over 60,000
miles if you maintain warranty requirements. Even this
comparison unfairly penalizes the conventional oil. I would
guess that for most people, the conventional oil would still
be fine at 5000 miles. Unless you can quantify the saving
associated with synthetic oil (easier starting, longer
engine life, etc.), I don't believe that most drivers can
justify the use of synthetic oil solely on economics. I do
believe synthetic oil is "better" but for most car owners
the better qualities of synthetic oil do not result in net
savings.

Ed
  #25  
Old December 21st 04, 03:30 PM
aarcuda69062
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In article >,
"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:

> This is a pretty manufactured comparison. As a point of fact, I have never
> paid more
> than $1.00 per quart of dino oil. I wait until it goes on sale. Dan is
> probably only
> used to buying stuff at places like NAPA and doesen't realize that the
> Checkers/Kragen/Schucks
> people regularly discount dino oil, sometimes down to 49 cents a quart with
> rebate.


What if there is no Checkers/Kragen/Schucks stores in the
vacinity?
I only recognize the name from seeing it on TV.
We've got NAPA and CarQuest and a few department stores.
The cheapest I've seen the house brand (Valvoline) at NAPA and
CarQuest is $.99 a quart.

> I would be happy to post scans of my last 5-6 cash register receipts that
> clearly
> show oil purchases at below $1.00 a quart if someone here wants to continue
> the rediculous claim that dino oil costs $2.10 a quart. And this is from
> this year
> since I buy as many cases as I can at the $1.00 a quart cost when it does go
> on sale. And this is name brand Chevron or Havoline oil also.


Don't know about the Chevron but the Havoline, yeesh, what tar!
And when I say tar, I mean experience from being inside engines
that has had it's oil changed religiously every 3K miles and the
owners have used Havoline exclusively since the vehicle was new.

> By contrast it is -extremely- rare for synthetic oil to be discounted - and
> when it
> is discounted, invariably it is only via rebate - and the fine print only
> allows 1 rebate
> per year per household. And also it isn't discounted much.


NAPA has Mobil 1 on sale for the month of December for $3.99 a
quart, Walmart almost always has 5 quart jugs for (IIRC) $19.88,
sometime less.

It would seem for some people, it would take just as much
manufacturing to achieve the price point you claim as it would
for Daniel's claim.
  #26  
Old December 21st 04, 03:31 PM
aarcuda69062
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In article
>,
Rob Munach > wrote:

> > The only place synthetic oils have "higher detergency" is...in your mind.
> >

> Nonsense. Put AMSOIL in an sludged up motor and see what happens.


Ya know, this -had- to happen!!
  #27  
Old December 21st 04, 05:06 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, C. E. White wrote:

> > Castrol or Valvoline's at about $2.10/qt including tax.
> > Mobil-1's at about $5.10/qt including tax.
> > An FL400S filter is about $4.20 including tax.
> >
> > Let's say your car takes 5 quarts and you want to drive it for 60,000
> > miles.
> >
> > If you're changing dino oil every 3k miles, that's 20 filters and 100
> > quarts, so $210 worth of oil and $84 worth of filters. Total oil costs
> > in 60k miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $294.
> >
> > If you're changing Mobil-1 every 9k miles, that's 6 filters and 30
> > quarts, so $153 worth of oil and $25.20 worth of filters. Total oil
> > costs in 60k miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $178.20.
> >
> > "Extra money" spent on synthetic: one hundred fifteen undollars and
> > eighty uncents.


> I see several problems with this comparison. Problem 1: You
> assume that the "dino" oil is shot at 3000 miles while the
> Mobil 1 is good till 9000 miles.


Yep. The two assumptions cancel each other out. I picked typical intervals
that ordinary consumers tend to use with each type of oil. It doesn't
really matter whether the intervals are 3000 vs. 9000 or 5000 vs. 12,000;
the point is that synthetic oil is more durable in any given set of
conditions. The only thing that changes with different sets of intervals
is the cost crossover point.

> Why do you assume you must change the oil filter every 3000 miles when
> you use conventional oil but that it is OK to use the same filter for
> 9000 miles with synthetic oil?


'Cause synthetic oil doesn't break down into sludge, gum and karbonaceous
krap to nearly the degree dino oil does.

> The warranty requirements for all of my cars require 5000 mile oil
> changes


Jolly fine, but we weren't talking about vehicle warranties. We were
talking about oil costs.

  #28  
Old December 21st 04, 05:08 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Rob Munach wrote:

> AMSOIL


Right on cue, here we go with Scamsoil again...
  #29  
Old December 21st 04, 05:10 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Philip wrote:

> Ever wonder why synthetics have not caught on in the diesel arena?


They have.
  #30  
Old December 21st 04, 05:15 PM
Michael Pardee
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"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Don't know about the Chevron but the Havoline, yeesh, what tar!
> And when I say tar, I mean experience from being inside engines
> that has had it's oil changed religiously every 3K miles and the
> owners have used Havoline exclusively since the vehicle was new.
>

FWIW, that is the message I get from my gear-head younger brother. He tells
me it leaves crusty carbon that just won't dissolve with anything throughout
engines.

Mike


 




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