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#1
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Annoying Generator Light
Hi,
Since I've had my Bug, the generator light has been steady on. The wiring harness is a nightmare and since the battery has been getting charged....simpler just to not get involved. It's always made me nervous though, and sure enough I recently had the belt come off due to an under-tight alternator pulley nut. The engine overheated before I realized anything was wrong, though thankfully it was just around town and not on the highway where some serious damage would have been done. Realizing the error of my ways, I set out to fix that damn light. The car (a '74 standard) has had an alternator conversion, but whoever did it used some creative wiring. At the alternator, there is a large red/ white [1] AND a mysterious black wire [2] connected to the B+ terminal, and a mysterious red wire [3] connected to the D+ terminal. I tried connecting the hacked-off remains of the green wire to the alternator, but it did nothing. Today I started monkeying with it some more and only after finding Speedy Jim's pages on the subject (highly informative, kudos to Jim) did things finally make sense. So, I spliced the blue and green wires from the regulator together and replaced the mysterious red wire on the D+ terminal with the green wire. Unfortunately, the light STILL doesn't work as it should. I am fairly certain it is wired correctly, and the light does come on with the key, but stays on while the engine is running (however, its brightness is now directly related to engine speed, whereas before it was inversely related). I believe the problem is that with ignition on and engine not running, the voltage at the green wire is a measly 9-10 volts. The D+ terminal puts out 14-15 volts when running. I figure the wiring on the ignition side of the light is just so shoddy that there is enough "backflow" though the warning light to keep it on. The voltage at the red wire (that was previously connected to D+) is more like 11-12 volts, still not equal to the battery voltage but closer. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not even sure how the warning light was working before, as the blue wire wasn't connected to anything before I started... So, anyway, does anybody think I have a chance at getting this working without rewiring the entire car? I fully intend to do that, and soon, but it would be nice to have the light working in the meanwhile. Also, I figure it probably isn't good for the alternator to be seeing that low of a voltage at the D+ terminal. Would I be better off just using the mysterious red wire until I rewire the whole damn thing and put these issues behind me? Thanks, Harry [1] The red/white wire appears to be correctly spliced into the battery and fusebox. [2] I have no clue where this goes. [3] No clue where this goes either, though it does not appear to be the red wire that used to go to the regulator, as that looks undisturbed under the rear seat. |
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#2
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Annoying Generator Light
Harry Smith wrote:
> Hi, > > Since I've had my Bug, the generator light has been steady on. The > wiring harness is a nightmare and since the battery has been getting > charged....simpler just to not get involved. It's always made me > nervous though, and sure enough I recently had the belt come off due > to an under-tight alternator pulley nut. The engine overheated before > I realized anything was wrong, though thankfully it was just around > town and not on the highway where some serious damage would have been > done. > > Realizing the error of my ways, I set out to fix that damn light. The > car (a '74 standard) has had an alternator conversion, but whoever did > it used some creative wiring. At the alternator, there is a large red/ > white [1] AND a mysterious black wire [2] connected to the B+ > terminal, and a mysterious red wire [3] connected to the D+ terminal. > I tried connecting the hacked-off remains of the green wire to the > alternator, but it did nothing. > > Today I started monkeying with it some more and only after finding > Speedy Jim's pages on the subject (highly informative, kudos to Jim) > did things finally make sense. So, I spliced the blue and green > wires from the regulator together and replaced the mysterious red wire > on the D+ terminal with the green wire. Unfortunately, the light > STILL doesn't work as it should. > > I am fairly certain it is wired correctly, and the light does come on > with the key, but stays on while the engine is running (however, its > brightness is now directly related to engine speed, whereas before it > was inversely related). I believe the problem is that with ignition > on and engine not running, the voltage at the green wire is a measly > 9-10 volts. The D+ terminal puts out 14-15 volts when running. I > figure the wiring on the ignition side of the light is just so shoddy > that there is enough "backflow" though the warning light to keep it > on. The voltage at the red wire (that was previously connected to D+) > is more like 11-12 volts, still not equal to the battery voltage but > closer. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not even sure how the > warning light was working before, as the blue wire wasn't connected to > anything before I started... > > So, anyway, does anybody think I have a chance at getting this working > without rewiring the entire car? I fully intend to do that, and > soon, but it would be nice to have the light working in the > meanwhile. Also, I figure it probably isn't good for the alternator > to be seeing that low of a voltage at the D+ terminal. Would I be > better off just using the mysterious red wire until I rewire the whole > damn thing and put these issues behind me? > > Thanks, > Harry > > > [1] The red/white wire appears to be correctly spliced into the > battery and fusebox. > [2] I have no clue where this goes. > [3] No clue where this goes either, though it does not appear to be > the red wire that used to go to the regulator, as that looks > undisturbed under the rear seat. > Sheeeesh! That's a lot to digest! First, '74 came standard with an alternator (US), but it wasn't the one in there now. The original was a Motorola with an *external* regulator mounted under the rear seat. The wiring looked like: http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/altreg.gif When they "converted" yours to an alternator with *internal* regulator, there were some extra wires. The Grn and Brw no longer are neeeded. But the Red wire must still be connected to D+. The Blu wire ends under the rear seat. It must be spliced to the skinny Red wire which went to the old regulator. That should make the dash "GEN" light work. The skinny Blk wire on the B+ stud was for the Diagnostic Socket. See this article for all the gory details: http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/plug.htm Much more on this page of my web site: http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/elec.htm Post back with a progress report.... Speedy Jim http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/ "I have no use for a car which has more spark plugs than a cow has teats!" Henry Ford, when advised that Chevrolet was introducing a 6-cylinder engine. |
#3
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Annoying Generator Light
On Mar 7, 8:32 am, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> Sheeeesh! That's a lot to digest! I tend toward the verbose... > First, '74 came standard with an alternator (US), but it wasn't > the one in there now. > > The original was a Motorola with an *external* regulator > mounted under the rear seat. The wiring looked like:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/altreg.gif Huh...the blue wire must have been spliced to the small red inside the plug...sneaky of them and unobservant of me. That does explain a few things though. > When they "converted" yours to an alternator with *internal* > regulator, there were some extra wires. The Grn and Brw no longer > are neeeded. > But the Red wire must still be connected to D+. > > The Blu wire ends under the rear seat. It must be spliced to the > skinny Red wire which went to the old regulator. That should make the > dash "GEN" light work. It sounds like you are telling me to just hook it back up how it was before, but it wasn't working like that. The plug that went to the regulator was undisturbed. The green, brown, etc. wires at the alternator were clipped and unattached. There is a largish red wire (maybe 12 gauge) that was hooked up to the D+ terminal. > The skinny Blk wire on the B+ stud was for the Diagnostic Socket. > See this article for all the gory details:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/plug.htm > > Much more on this page of my web site:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/elec.htm > > Post back with a progress report.... I've examined those diagrams closely, and I suppose I don't really understand why my setup should be any different than what is shown in the diagrams for a car converted from a generator. Is the warning light wired differently in my gauge than it would in a car that had a generator? This large red wire that was on the D+ terminal...where "should" it be wired to? What about the small red wire from the former site of the regulator? In related news, I've been using wiring diagrams I found at http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php However, the '73-up Std Beetle diagram doesn't really seem to match what I have. Which should be the closest? I just went and looked it up by VIN and it is in fact a '74. Thanks, Harry |
#4
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Annoying Generator Light
On Mar 7, 6:35 pm, "Harry Smith" > wrote:
> In related news, I've been using wiring diagrams I found athttp://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php However, the > '73-up Std Beetle diagram doesn't really seem to match what I have. > Which should be the closest? I just went and looked it up by VIN and > it is in fact a '74. To avoid sounding stupid, I have seen the diagram that says "74-75", but the diagram itself says it is for Super and La Grande Bugs... I suppose that must be the one for me despite what it says...just my luck that the diagram I actually need is the hardest to read. Harry |
#5
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Annoying Generator Light
Harry Smith wrote:
> On Mar 7, 8:32 am, Speedy Jim > wrote: > >> Sheeeesh! That's a lot to digest! > > > I tend toward the verbose... > > >> First, '74 came standard with an alternator (US), but it wasn't >>the one in there now. >> >> The original was a Motorola with an *external* regulator >>mounted under the rear seat. The wiring looked like:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/altreg.gif > > > Huh...the blue wire must have been spliced to the small red inside the > plug...sneaky of them and unobservant of me. That does explain a few > things though. > > >> When they "converted" yours to an alternator with *internal* >>regulator, there were some extra wires. The Grn and Brw no longer >>are neeeded. >>But the Red wire must still be connected to D+. >> >>The Blu wire ends under the rear seat. It must be spliced to the >>skinny Red wire which went to the old regulator. That should make the >>dash "GEN" light work. > > > It sounds like you are telling me to just hook it back up how it was > before, but it wasn't working like that. The plug that went to the > regulator was undisturbed. The green, brown, etc. wires at the > alternator were clipped and unattached. There is a largish red wire > (maybe 12 gauge) that was hooked up to the D+ terminal. > > >>The skinny Blk wire on the B+ stud was for the Diagnostic Socket. >>See this article for all the gory details:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/plug.htm >> >>Much more on this page of my web site:http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/elec.htm >> >>Post back with a progress report.... > > > I've examined those diagrams closely, and I suppose I don't really > understand why my setup should be any different than what is shown in > the diagrams for a car converted from a generator. Is the warning > light wired differently in my gauge than it would in a car that had a > generator? This large red wire that was on the D+ terminal...where > "should" it be wired to? What about the small red wire from the > former site of the regulator? > > In related news, I've been using wiring diagrams I found at > http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php However, the > '73-up Std Beetle diagram doesn't really seem to match what I have. > Which should be the closest? I just went and looked it up by VIN and > it is in fact a '74. > > Thanks, > Harry > Last things first: Download the diagram "1974-up Super Beetle only" That will be correct for your car (they lied about the Super only). Quote: "There is a largish red wire (maybe 12 gauge) that was hooked up to the D+ terminal." That's not correct. I have no idea where they got that wire from. D+ should have the skinny Red wire that was part of the 3-prong plug (Red, Grn, Brw) and now cut off. As you note, the skinny Red is spliced to Blu back under the seat. The GEN light in the speedo is the same for generator and alternator cars. Jim |
#6
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Annoying Generator Light
On Mar 7, 6:53 pm, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> Last things first: > > Download the diagram "1974-up Super Beetle only" > > That will be correct for your car (they lied about the Super only). > > Quote: "There is a largish red wire > (maybe 12 gauge) that was hooked up to the D+ terminal." > > That's not correct. I have no idea where they got that wire from. > D+ should have the skinny Red wire that was part of the 3-prong plug > (Red, Grn, Brw) and now cut off. As you note, the skinny Red is > spliced to Blu back under the seat. > > The GEN light in the speedo is the same for generator and alternator > cars. Excellent...I feel like we're getting somewhere! Speedy as ever! So really it doesn't matter if you splice the blue to the red or to the green, as long as the other end is hooked up to D+. Except now we're back to where we started in my first post...I've got the blue spliced to green, green hooked up the D+, and still the light is solid on. Peace, Harry |
#7
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Annoying Generator Light
Harry Smith wrote:
> On Mar 7, 6:53 pm, Speedy Jim > wrote: > >> Last things first: >> >> Download the diagram "1974-up Super Beetle only" >> >> That will be correct for your car (they lied about the Super only). >> >> Quote: "There is a largish red wire >> (maybe 12 gauge) that was hooked up to the D+ terminal." >> >> That's not correct. I have no idea where they got that wire from. >> D+ should have the skinny Red wire that was part of the 3-prong plug >> (Red, Grn, Brw) and now cut off. As you note, the skinny Red is >> spliced to Blu back under the seat. >> >> The GEN light in the speedo is the same for generator and alternator >>cars. > > > > Excellent...I feel like we're getting somewhere! Speedy as ever! > > So really it doesn't matter if you splice the blue to the red or to > the green, as long as the other end is hooked up to D+. Except now > we're back to where we started in my first post...I've got the blue > spliced to green, green hooked up the D+, and still the light is solid > on. > > Peace, > Harry > HaHa. I missed the humor of the situation. Try this: Ground the Blu wire with key On. (Just the Blu wire end, not spliced to anything.) The GEN light should come on. If that works, splice a long hunk of loose wire to the Blu end and connect other end to D+. Light should be On and, if you measure, voltage at D+ should be nearly Zero. Jim |
#8
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Annoying Generator Light
On Mar 7, 7:38 pm, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> HaHa. I missed the humor of the situation. It takes special people to find humor in electrical gremlins... > Try this: > Ground the Blu wire with key On. (Just the Blu wire end, > not spliced to anything.) The GEN light should come on. Tried that when I was messing around under the rear seat. The GEN light comes on when the blue wire is grounded, goes off when it is not. > If that works, splice a long hunk of loose wire to the Blu > end and connect other end to D+. > Light should be On and, if you measure, voltage at D+ should be > nearly Zero. That would be good to try, though I did check the green wire for continuity before I spliced the blue wire to it. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the last part...are you saying with the generator light properly hooked up to D+, with the key on and engine off, there should be nearly zero potential between D+ and ground? That would make sense as that is the light's path to ground...but the problem isn't getting the light to come on, but making it go off when it should...hmm... Well, looks like I've got something to do tomorrow. Thanks for all the help Jim, you are an asset to the group. I'll be back when I've got more to tell... Peace, Harry |
#9
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Annoying Generator Light
"Harry Smith" > wrote in message ps.com... >. Thanks for all > the help Jim, you are an asset to the group. indeed. |
#10
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Annoying Generator Light
On Mar 7, 7:38 pm, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> Try this: > Ground the Blu wire with key On. (Just the Blu wire end, > not spliced to anything.) The GEN light should come on. > > If that works, splice a long hunk of loose wire to the Blu > end and connect other end to D+. > Light should be On and, if you measure, voltage at D+ should be > nearly Zero. Jim, Okay, I've finally gotten back to this problem. My tinkering was rudely interupted by a burned out igniton condensor. I got some reading with my multimeter. With key on, engine off: D+ to ground: 1.17V B+ to ground: 10.5V Gen Light terminal to grnd: 1.2V and for comparison... Speedo backlight to grnd: 9.8V With engine running at low idle: D+ to ground: 13.3V B+ to ground: 11.8V Gen Light terminal to grnd: 13.3V and for comparison... Speedo backlight to grnd: 11.2V At a low idle (such as with a cold engine) the gen light is very dim, barely on. At a fast idle or while driving the gen light is bright. The voltage at B+ goes up some at higher RPMs, but I've not seen it get much above 12.5V any time I've checked. I'm frankly amazed the battery gets charged at all with readings this low, but I've been driving it for three months now and no problems. Maybe you'll be able to read more into this... Thanks, Harry |
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