American vs German Quality

"Ritz" > wrote in message news
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Kind of like how you have no compelling interest in convincing me that
>>>the
>>>3.0L Vulcan engine is garbage?
>>
>>
>> Right. I truly don't care what you think.
>
> Daniel, why do you have to be such a prick? You make a statement and
> people ask you what you base that statement on. Your reply is basically,
> kiss my ass, I don't care what you think. So I'm inclined to discount
> your opinion entirely.
>
> If I want to know about lightbulbs, I'll gladly defer to your experience,
> but I'm certainly not going to take anything you say about the Ford
> Modular V8 or 3.0L V6 without some shred of independently verifiable
> evidence. Your commentary simply doesn't jibe with my day to day
> experience with either of those engines.

That's Daniel all right, all Fords suck but his 1992 Dodge Omni is the best
damn car ever built..... strange
Bob

"Ritz" > wrote in message news
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Kind of like how you have no compelling interest in convincing me that
>>>the
>>>3.0L Vulcan engine is garbage?
>>
>>
>> Right. I truly don't care what you think.
>
> Daniel, why do you have to be such a prick? You make a statement and
> people ask you what you base that statement on. Your reply is basically,
> kiss my ass, I don't care what you think. So I'm inclined to discount
> your opinion entirely.
>
> If I want to know about lightbulbs, I'll gladly defer to your experience,
> but I'm certainly not going to take anything you say about the Ford
> Modular V8 or 3.0L V6 without some shred of independently verifiable
> evidence. Your commentary simply doesn't jibe with my day to day
> experience with either of those engines.

That's Daniel all right, all Fords suck but his 1992 Dodge Omni is the best
damn car ever built..... strange
Bob

(RPhillips47) wrote in message >...
> "Harry K" wrote:
>
> >The whole thread has degenerated into "my brand is perfect and all
> >others suck" Totally meaningless.
> >
> >To put it somewhat back where I started. After looking at it (500) on
> >the lot (no intentions of buying, just curious) I check the net. A
> >few reviews were all I did but the consensus was that they will be
> >found in the rental fleets and that's about it. My current 2001
> >Taurus is my 4th sequential ford product (3 fords, 1 sable) and have
> >had no problems with any of them. Why ford? Only because of the
> >dealer. I'd be just as happy driving GM or Chrysler.
>
> Well, Harry - this IS a Chrysler newsgroup so why shouldn't we be supportive of
> our brand, huh?????

Considering that I am replying from rad...and what does that have to
do with my cogent observation? I have been hearing the same juvenile
bs since I was a pup.

Harry K

(RPhillips47) wrote in message >...
> "Harry K" wrote:
>
> >The whole thread has degenerated into "my brand is perfect and all
> >others suck" Totally meaningless.
> >
> >To put it somewhat back where I started. After looking at it (500) on
> >the lot (no intentions of buying, just curious) I check the net. A
> >few reviews were all I did but the consensus was that they will be
> >found in the rental fleets and that's about it. My current 2001
> >Taurus is my 4th sequential ford product (3 fords, 1 sable) and have
> >had no problems with any of them. Why ford? Only because of the
> >dealer. I'd be just as happy driving GM or Chrysler.
>
> Well, Harry - this IS a Chrysler newsgroup so why shouldn't we be supportive of
> our brand, huh?????

Considering that I am replying from rad...and what does that have to
do with my cogent observation? I have been hearing the same juvenile
bs since I was a pup.

Harry K

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill 2 wrote:
> > "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> > n.umich.edu...
> >
> >>On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Yep, you can rely on the modular V8 engines to eat intake manifolds
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>>cylinder heads, in addition to the rotating-electrics problems most
> >
> > all
> >
> >>>>Fords have.
> >>
> >>>Sorry that just doesn't quite line up with reality. The engines might
> >>>start to smoke after 350 000km, but other than the car is very
reliable.
> >>
> >>Your reality is not the reality of the fleet managers -- several of
them,
> >>over the years -- I've spoken with. What's your sample size, there,
Bill?
> >>One? Two?
> >
> >
> > Personally 3.
> >
> > One guy is on his 5th CV, his last one had 400 000km and he only got rid
of
> > it because it was written off in a crash. It burned a little oil but
other
> > than that it was fine.
>
> CV? Chrysler Vehicle?? Something else???

Ford Crown Victoria.

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill 2 wrote:
> > "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> > n.umich.edu...
> >
> >>On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Yep, you can rely on the modular V8 engines to eat intake manifolds
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>>cylinder heads, in addition to the rotating-electrics problems most
> >
> > all
> >
> >>>>Fords have.
> >>
> >>>Sorry that just doesn't quite line up with reality. The engines might
> >>>start to smoke after 350 000km, but other than the car is very
reliable.
> >>
> >>Your reality is not the reality of the fleet managers -- several of
them,
> >>over the years -- I've spoken with. What's your sample size, there,
Bill?
> >>One? Two?
> >
> >
> > Personally 3.
> >
> > One guy is on his 5th CV, his last one had 400 000km and he only got rid
of
> > it because it was written off in a crash. It burned a little oil but
other
> > than that it was fine.
>
> CV? Chrysler Vehicle?? Something else???

Ford Crown Victoria.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bob wrote:

> That's Daniel all right, all Fords suck but his 1992 Dodge Omni is the
> best damn car ever built..... strange

I've never owned an Omni, and that's a model that was discontinued in
1990.

Thanks for playing.

DS

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bob wrote:

> That's Daniel all right, all Fords suck but his 1992 Dodge Omni is the
> best damn car ever built..... strange

I've never owned an Omni, and that's a model that was discontinued in
1990.

Thanks for playing.

DS

Ritz wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> Ritz wrote:
>>
>>> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you
>>> can convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about
>>> their experiences....
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
>> 200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
>> should have the same experience?
>>
>> The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some
>> pretty major component replacements a lot more often than fleet
>> builders were used to seeing.
>
>
> Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any pointers on sources
> of information that would fill in some of the blanks here? By "early"
> do you mean 1996/1997/1998/2004?

I'd say go look at the TSBs as Daniel suggested. I haven't talked to a
fleet guy about it since before 2000 so I have no current point of
contact, nor have I really followed the development closely. I DO know
that my employer's 1998 fleet van with a 5.4 drives and responds
COMPLETELY differently than 2003 and 2005 rentals I've had with the
newer 5.4 engine- how much is due to engine management and how much due
to hardware improvements I do not know. I've also picked up and thumbed
through a book on building high-performance (ie full race) Ford Modulars
in the bookstore one day, and it had a whole litany of things in its
"spotters guide" about which year blocks make good starting points and
which should be avoided. Basically, it pretty much ignores all the iron
blocks and focuses on the aluminum blocks from the Mk VIII, Navigator,
and Cobra. The iron block is the one that Dan and I are both talking
about, and the one that has really corny features like setting bearing
cap alignment by jackscrews rather than machined mating surfaces
(ditched by Ford in its own hi-po applications). To be honest, I only
picked it up out of sheer surprise that ANYONE has had success building
full-race Ford Modulars.

And if you want a one-sentence blanket assesment of the Modular compared
to the Mopar Hemi and the GM Gen-III, try this:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/

Most of the article is a detailed assessment of the Hemi using the LS-6
as a benchmark, but concludes that the LS-6 is "streets ahead" of the
Ford Modular, and the Hemi is ahead of the LS-6.

Ritz wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> Ritz wrote:
>>
>>> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you
>>> can convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about
>>> their experiences....
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
>> 200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
>> should have the same experience?
>>
>> The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some
>> pretty major component replacements a lot more often than fleet
>> builders were used to seeing.
>
>
> Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any pointers on sources
> of information that would fill in some of the blanks here? By "early"
> do you mean 1996/1997/1998/2004?

I'd say go look at the TSBs as Daniel suggested. I haven't talked to a
fleet guy about it since before 2000 so I have no current point of
contact, nor have I really followed the development closely. I DO know
that my employer's 1998 fleet van with a 5.4 drives and responds
COMPLETELY differently than 2003 and 2005 rentals I've had with the
newer 5.4 engine- how much is due to engine management and how much due
to hardware improvements I do not know. I've also picked up and thumbed
through a book on building high-performance (ie full race) Ford Modulars
in the bookstore one day, and it had a whole litany of things in its
"spotters guide" about which year blocks make good starting points and
which should be avoided. Basically, it pretty much ignores all the iron
blocks and focuses on the aluminum blocks from the Mk VIII, Navigator,
and Cobra. The iron block is the one that Dan and I are both talking
about, and the one that has really corny features like setting bearing
cap alignment by jackscrews rather than machined mating surfaces
(ditched by Ford in its own hi-po applications). To be honest, I only
picked it up out of sheer surprise that ANYONE has had success building
full-race Ford Modulars.

And if you want a one-sentence blanket assesment of the Modular compared
to the Mopar Hemi and the GM Gen-III, try this:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/

Most of the article is a detailed assessment of the Hemi using the LS-6
as a benchmark, but concludes that the LS-6 is "streets ahead" of the
Ford Modular, and the Hemi is ahead of the LS-6.