American vs German Quality

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Ritz wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Just because there isn't a handy citation somewhere in the magical
>>>>>world of cyberspace doesn't mean that a statement is untrue. I have
>>>>>also talked to some fleet maintainers who found that in the early
>>>>>years of the Modular they need to keep a strangely large supply of
>>>>>important parts on hand compared to the previous Ford engines and
>>>>>compared to GM and Chrysler engines.
>>>
>>>>Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>So of course you conclude everyone's lying whose experience differs from
>>>your own experience with a couple cars.
>>
>>What is wrong with you?
>
>
> I dislike your attitude. Since the feeling is apparently mutual, I suggest
> you quit reading my posts, since they seem to bother you so.

The application of attitude has been rather once sided here. You might
want to go back and read things again. I don't know what I've done to
offend you, but your behaviour has been really out of line.

Cheers,

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Ritz wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Just because there isn't a handy citation somewhere in the magical
>>>>>world of cyberspace doesn't mean that a statement is untrue. I have
>>>>>also talked to some fleet maintainers who found that in the early
>>>>>years of the Modular they need to keep a strangely large supply of
>>>>>important parts on hand compared to the previous Ford engines and
>>>>>compared to GM and Chrysler engines.
>>>
>>>>Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>So of course you conclude everyone's lying whose experience differs from
>>>your own experience with a couple cars.
>>
>>What is wrong with you?
>
>
> I dislike your attitude. Since the feeling is apparently mutual, I suggest
> you quit reading my posts, since they seem to bother you so.

The application of attitude has been rather once sided here. You might
want to go back and read things again. I don't know what I've done to
offend you, but your behaviour has been really out of line.

Cheers,

Ritz wrote:

> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you can
> convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about their
> experiences....
>
> Cheers,

My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
should have the same experience?

The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some pretty
major component replacements a lot more often than fleet builders were
used to seeing.

Ritz wrote:

> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you can
> convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about their
> experiences....
>
> Cheers,

My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
should have the same experience?

The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some pretty
major component replacements a lot more often than fleet builders were
used to seeing.

Steve wrote:

> Ritz wrote:
>
>> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you
>> can convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about their
>> experiences....
>>
>> Cheers,
>
>
> My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
> 200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
> should have the same experience?
>
> The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some pretty
> major component replacements a lot more often than fleet builders were
> used to seeing.

Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any pointers on sources
of information that would fill in some of the blanks here? By "early"
do you mean 1996/1997/1998/2004?

Cheers,

Steve wrote:

> Ritz wrote:
>
>> Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you
>> can convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about their
>> experiences....
>>
>> Cheers,
>
>
> My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
> 200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
> should have the same experience?
>
> The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some pretty
> major component replacements a lot more often than fleet builders were
> used to seeing.

Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any pointers on sources
of information that would fill in some of the blanks here? By "early"
do you mean 1996/1997/1998/2004?

Cheers,

Bill 2 wrote:
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
>
>>On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Yep, you can rely on the modular V8 engines to eat intake manifolds
>
> and
>
>>>>cylinder heads, in addition to the rotating-electrics problems most
>
> all
>
>>>>Fords have.
>>
>>>Sorry that just doesn't quite line up with reality. The engines might
>>>start to smoke after 350 000km, but other than the car is very reliable.
>>
>>Your reality is not the reality of the fleet managers -- several of them,
>>over the years -- I've spoken with. What's your sample size, there, Bill?
>>One? Two?
>
>
> Personally 3.
>
> One guy is on his 5th CV, his last one had 400 000km and he only got rid of
> it because it was written off in a crash. It burned a little oil but other
> than that it was fine.

CV? Chrysler Vehicle?? Something else???

Matt

Bill 2 wrote:
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
>
>>On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Yep, you can rely on the modular V8 engines to eat intake manifolds
>
> and
>
>>>>cylinder heads, in addition to the rotating-electrics problems most
>
> all
>
>>>>Fords have.
>>
>>>Sorry that just doesn't quite line up with reality. The engines might
>>>start to smoke after 350 000km, but other than the car is very reliable.
>>
>>Your reality is not the reality of the fleet managers -- several of them,
>>over the years -- I've spoken with. What's your sample size, there, Bill?
>>One? Two?
>
>
> Personally 3.
>
> One guy is on his 5th CV, his last one had 400 000km and he only got rid of
> it because it was written off in a crash. It burned a little oil but other
> than that it was fine.

CV? Chrysler Vehicle?? Something else???

Matt

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know what fleet managers you were talking too, but everyone else
>>has had good luck with CVs.
>
>
> Everyone else? Are ya *sure* about that? Or are you only sure about the
> three you know about? I really have no particularly compelling interest in
> convincing you that many versions of the Ford Modular V8 are garbage. I'm
> sure your reality is very real to you, and that's fine. I will say this
> about the "everyone else" you believe has had "good luck" with Clown
> Victorias:
>
> Luck has nothing to do with it. Engineering quality is what determines
> reliability.

Not completely. Assembly quality has an effect on reliability as well.
It is still not possible to engineer a design such that it is
completely idiot-proof with respect to assembly.

Matt

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know what fleet managers you were talking too, but everyone else
>>has had good luck with CVs.
>
>
> Everyone else? Are ya *sure* about that? Or are you only sure about the
> three you know about? I really have no particularly compelling interest in
> convincing you that many versions of the Ford Modular V8 are garbage. I'm
> sure your reality is very real to you, and that's fine. I will say this
> about the "everyone else" you believe has had "good luck" with Clown
> Victorias:
>
> Luck has nothing to do with it. Engineering quality is what determines
> reliability.

Not completely. Assembly quality has an effect on reliability as well.
It is still not possible to engineer a design such that it is
completely idiot-proof with respect to assembly.

Matt